Replacement 996 motor out of warranty?
01-01-2006, 07:24 AM
#46
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I totally agree with Dell. 
Sorry, but plz stop whining. All cars brake down now and then. It is a delicate and very high quality machine, but it has to be treated well and if you don't know your cars history, you don't know if this is the case.
BTW white smoke sounds like coolant is burnt. Isn't the problem on your engine a simple seal problem? Why change the whole engine? ...or am I completely wrong?
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Sorry, but plz stop whining. All cars brake down now and then. It is a delicate and very high quality machine, but it has to be treated well and if you don't know your cars history, you don't know if this is the case.
BTW white smoke sounds like coolant is burnt. Isn't the problem on your engine a simple seal problem? Why change the whole engine? ...or am I completely wrong?
Porsche Cab C4, 2000
01-01-2006, 09:30 AM
#47
Three Wheelin'
I think you should have been VERY suspicious, that it needed a new oil pan after the previous owner skid a speed bump "or something" If I had a hard landing I would have checked that imediately and replaced the pan and checked out the engine.Why didn't the last owner do that??? I think your car was abused by the previous guy (leasee).I hope things work out for you and you keep us posted about how this is resolved.
01-01-2006, 11:36 AM
#48
PAG/PCNA also says that RMS isn't an issue or even on the radar as being a concern. As we all know, that is not the case. Does that mean Porsche is on the hook for RMS and owes everyone a new engine due to faulty design?
As said, both of my engine failuires were diagnosed by porsche as due to faulty manufacturing.
Do you have the same to say about RMS as well? I suppose that's the owners fault as well...
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As said, both of my engine failuires were diagnosed by porsche as due to faulty manufacturing.
Do you have the same to say about RMS as well? I suppose that's the owners fault as well...
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Originally Posted by LVDell
I find that very hard to believe. If that was the case and it was stated in writing or a verbal from PAG/PCNA, then trust me, the engine would have been replaced. If the company claims full responsibility and stated that the engine was a flaw that would lead to a blown engine then guess what? They are on the hook. See why it is hard to believe to believe your statement?
Engine coolant is not supposed to mix with engine oil internally. What driving would cause this to happen? And name another car that this happens on, And the second engine that grenaded, one of the cylinders came out of the sleeve lining internally. What kind of horrible driving would cause this and name another car tht is currently out there that has engine malfunctions like this due to bad driving/maintenance?
And by the way, you are NOT over your bitter taste of buying a multiple owner, wholesaled, Ford dealership sold, unknown history lemon.
Unless you (general) are the only owner and have all service done at the dealer or documented then you have no case for a claim in my opinion. Why? As many have stated, you just have NO way to know how the car was treated. Period.
Engine coolant is not supposed to mix with engine oil internally. What driving would cause this to happen? And name another car that this happens on, And the second engine that grenaded, one of the cylinders came out of the sleeve lining internally. What kind of horrible driving would cause this and name another car tht is currently out there that has engine malfunctions like this due to bad driving/maintenance?
And by the way, you are NOT over your bitter taste of buying a multiple owner, wholesaled, Ford dealership sold, unknown history lemon.
Unless you (general) are the only owner and have all service done at the dealer or documented then you have no case for a claim in my opinion. Why? As many have stated, you just have NO way to know how the car was treated. Period.
01-01-2006, 12:01 PM
#49
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There's some flawed logic here ... 993 engines, generally, do not have catastrophic failures the way the 996 engines do ... if one needs to be rebuilt, it's usually a money shift or some other fluke occurrance. The one fatal flaw in the 993 engine is the secondary air passages that get clogged on the 96-98 cars (which is why I have a 95) and even though that can require a top-end rebuild to open the passages, clogged passages only cause the car to fail emissions, they don't affect how the engine runs at all. If you don't have to get the OBD2 test, the car will be fine.
Eventually, a 993 engine will wear out its valve guides, just as other earlier 911 engines do. And a top-end rebuild on a 993 typically runs about $5k or so. You rarely have to touch the bottom end of a 993 engine unless you are the cause of the rebuild by making a mistake.
Buying a new factory 993 engine is hugely expensive because those engines are handbuilt by one guy at the factory from the bottom up, not mass-produced the way the 996 engines are. Last I heard, a new 993 engine was $35k.
What irks me -- and I have owned a 99 996 as well as about 12 other earlier 911s -- is the prospect of paying for a new 996 engine and to have that one fail down the road as well, that is unacceptable to me. Particularly since the engine can fail without being abused. I lost an RMS on my 99 at 32k miles. Luckily for me, the engine was in tolerance and all it needed was a new seal. But if I had the cylinder sleeve problem, due to a manufacturing flaw, and had to shell out for a whole new engine as a result, I would have been livid.
I mean, come on, a certain percentage of these engines are failing due to their design and/or problems with the manufacturing process. That means you can buy a 996, maintain it exactly as Porsche wants you to, never overrev or abuse it, and still walk out in the morning, put the key in and cost yourself $10k. And you can pay that $10k, faithfully maintain that engine and then find yourself out another $10k in two years when the warranty's up. That would not happen on any earlier 911 engine.
Has it occurred to anyone that it's interesting that a new 993 engine costs $25k more than a 996 engine, but the price of the car didn't decrease when the 996 came out?
Every 911 engine has had its flaws ... pulled head studs on the 2.7, broken head studs on the 3.0, valve guides on the 3.2, cylinder/case leaks on the 964, SAI passages on the 993 ... but none of those problems required buying an expensive brand new engine with the same inherent flaw as the original engine.
That's why as much as I enjoyed the 996 I had, I likely won't buy another one. It's just way too much of a crapshoot and I don't want to own a car that requires having a warranty due to a design flaw that Porsche won't own up to or address. How many times have I read on this forum "I would never own a 996 that wasn't under factory warranty?" That's just a damn shame.
Eventually, a 993 engine will wear out its valve guides, just as other earlier 911 engines do. And a top-end rebuild on a 993 typically runs about $5k or so. You rarely have to touch the bottom end of a 993 engine unless you are the cause of the rebuild by making a mistake.
Buying a new factory 993 engine is hugely expensive because those engines are handbuilt by one guy at the factory from the bottom up, not mass-produced the way the 996 engines are. Last I heard, a new 993 engine was $35k.
What irks me -- and I have owned a 99 996 as well as about 12 other earlier 911s -- is the prospect of paying for a new 996 engine and to have that one fail down the road as well, that is unacceptable to me. Particularly since the engine can fail without being abused. I lost an RMS on my 99 at 32k miles. Luckily for me, the engine was in tolerance and all it needed was a new seal. But if I had the cylinder sleeve problem, due to a manufacturing flaw, and had to shell out for a whole new engine as a result, I would have been livid.
I mean, come on, a certain percentage of these engines are failing due to their design and/or problems with the manufacturing process. That means you can buy a 996, maintain it exactly as Porsche wants you to, never overrev or abuse it, and still walk out in the morning, put the key in and cost yourself $10k. And you can pay that $10k, faithfully maintain that engine and then find yourself out another $10k in two years when the warranty's up. That would not happen on any earlier 911 engine.
Has it occurred to anyone that it's interesting that a new 993 engine costs $25k more than a 996 engine, but the price of the car didn't decrease when the 996 came out?
Every 911 engine has had its flaws ... pulled head studs on the 2.7, broken head studs on the 3.0, valve guides on the 3.2, cylinder/case leaks on the 964, SAI passages on the 993 ... but none of those problems required buying an expensive brand new engine with the same inherent flaw as the original engine.
That's why as much as I enjoyed the 996 I had, I likely won't buy another one. It's just way too much of a crapshoot and I don't want to own a car that requires having a warranty due to a design flaw that Porsche won't own up to or address. How many times have I read on this forum "I would never own a 996 that wasn't under factory warranty?" That's just a damn shame.
01-01-2006, 01:28 PM
#50
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"That's why as much as I enjoyed the 996 I had, I likely won't buy another one. It's just way too much of a crapshoot and I don't want to own a car that requires having a warranty due to a design flaw that Porsche won't own up to or address. How many times have I read on this forum "I would never own a 996 that wasn't under factory warranty?" That's just a damn shame."
Boy I sure hope that someone at Porsche NA reads this forum, because that is a damn shame. One of this car's greatest attributes was it's "reliable race car" mystique. If everyone refuses to own the newer models once they get 6-7 years old then they're just like every other car manufacturer. In 5 years we'll be seeing 10-11 year old 911's for 15k, and this will kill the value of the brand. For cars like these their ability to retain value helps sales throughout the ownership chain. I don't have an anwser on how to fix this, but owning up to catastophic failures that are a design flaw would be a big start.
Boy I sure hope that someone at Porsche NA reads this forum, because that is a damn shame. One of this car's greatest attributes was it's "reliable race car" mystique. If everyone refuses to own the newer models once they get 6-7 years old then they're just like every other car manufacturer. In 5 years we'll be seeing 10-11 year old 911's for 15k, and this will kill the value of the brand. For cars like these their ability to retain value helps sales throughout the ownership chain. I don't have an anwser on how to fix this, but owning up to catastophic failures that are a design flaw would be a big start.
01-01-2006, 01:55 PM
#51
Originally Posted by vjd3
Eventually, a 993 engine will wear out its valve guides, just as other earlier 911 engines do. And a top-end rebuild on a 993 typically runs about $5k or so. You rarely have to touch the bottom end of a 993 engine unless you are the cause of the rebuild by making a mistake.
I've never heard of a 993 top end rebuilt costing less than $7K, unless you do the work yourself. That's not much less than a complete replacement for a 996.
01-01-2006, 05:46 PM
#52
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by a911driver
These catastrophic failures are definitely Porsche's dirty little secret.
RMS is a problem, but these engines are not "failing" at the high rates that some on this board imply.
01-01-2006, 06:29 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by AlvaSpeed
Are the 996 Turbos and GT3's having the same engine issues??
01-01-2006, 06:36 PM
#55
I will be the first to admit, having two engines go out on me at under 45,000 miles that engine failuire is NOT a common failuire.. all i'm saying is, that it "DOES" happen.. and when it does happen, most all of the time they are caused by faulty design from the factory.. and in this day and age, there is no excuse for engines to grenade like the do.. and the only company that released a car that did this as of recently (m3), replaced all the faulty engines free of charge.. (bmw 
)
can someone explain how one of the cylinders can fall out of the sleeve lining with 8,000 miles on it on an almost brand new engine? and how coolant just happens to mix with oil, inside the internal engine? I don't see how any kind of driving or negligent service could cause this to happen.. the porsche dealer diagnosed the problems as saying nothing could have been done to cause or prevent this from happening.. they just happened, and unfortunately i received faulty engines from the factory.. but since i was out of warranty, there was nothing i could do, but ante up $11k to 13k a pop..
driving a 996 is like playing russian roulette... just have $15,000 in the bank in reserve, because you never know, it "can" happen.. unlike some other cars, where the odds are more like 1 in 1000..
the thing that irks me the most, is that after all of this time, after 7 years of R&D, porsche still retained basically the same engine for the 997 with the same inherint problems.. with all the money they have made and being the most profitable car company in the world, there's just no excuse for their lack of care for customers, or anything else they put out on the market...
it seems the more they make, the less they care about the customers..
and no the gt3, tt doesn't appear to have any engine flaws.. if i were to get a porsche, i wouldn't even look at a c2/c4, considering how reasonable a 2001 996 twin turbo can be gotten for nowadays.. they are very reliable and good deals now that the 997tt is months away from the mass public..
)can someone explain how one of the cylinders can fall out of the sleeve lining with 8,000 miles on it on an almost brand new engine? and how coolant just happens to mix with oil, inside the internal engine? I don't see how any kind of driving or negligent service could cause this to happen.. the porsche dealer diagnosed the problems as saying nothing could have been done to cause or prevent this from happening.. they just happened, and unfortunately i received faulty engines from the factory.. but since i was out of warranty, there was nothing i could do, but ante up $11k to 13k a pop..
driving a 996 is like playing russian roulette... just have $15,000 in the bank in reserve, because you never know, it "can" happen.. unlike some other cars, where the odds are more like 1 in 1000..
the thing that irks me the most, is that after all of this time, after 7 years of R&D, porsche still retained basically the same engine for the 997 with the same inherint problems.. with all the money they have made and being the most profitable car company in the world, there's just no excuse for their lack of care for customers, or anything else they put out on the market...
it seems the more they make, the less they care about the customers..
and no the gt3, tt doesn't appear to have any engine flaws.. if i were to get a porsche, i wouldn't even look at a c2/c4, considering how reasonable a 2001 996 twin turbo can be gotten for nowadays.. they are very reliable and good deals now that the 997tt is months away from the mass public..
01-01-2006, 06:50 PM
#56
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there ARE GT3 that suffered from RMS leak, but it is rarer than M96 engines.
01-01-2006, 07:11 PM
#57
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My local specialty Porsche shop has an opinion about the whole 996 engine situation. Just paraphrasing what they told me is that Porsche does know about a higher rate of failure on the 996 engines and therfore have priced the rebuilt engines to be so inexpensive that it is cheaper to just replace the engine than to sue Porsche for the problem. He told me a new 993 engine in a crate is around $50k vs 9K for the 996. His attitude (of course he is playing with my money) is that if I ever have to replace the engine it shouldn't bother me because of the "low" price from Porsche.
On a happier note a friend of mine did blow his engine and Porsche was very accomodating and paid around 75% of the replacement cost. BTW my friend beat the crap out of his engine and did over rev it at the trackand it was a few months out of warranty. That was pretty encouraging to me.
On a happier note a friend of mine did blow his engine and Porsche was very accomodating and paid around 75% of the replacement cost. BTW my friend beat the crap out of his engine and did over rev it at the trackand it was a few months out of warranty. That was pretty encouraging to me.
01-01-2006, 07:25 PM
#58
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by bobporsche996
I will be the first to admit, having two engines go out on me at under 45,000 miles that engine failuire is NOT a common failuire.. all i'm saying is, that it "DOES" happen.. and when it does happen, most all of the time they are caused by faulty design from the factory.. and in this day and age, there is no excuse for engines to grenade like the do.. and the only company that released a car that did this as of recently (m3), replaced all the faulty engines free of charge.. (bmw )
)You seem to hate the 996 as 99% of your post are negative (no offense intended, just an observation). If the car gives you that much grief, why not sell it? Life is too short to carry that much negative energy around (my opinion of course).
01-01-2006, 07:40 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by 996FLT6
And i have to say JIMB has a sweet ride : ) though I never see it in person but his posts regarding his rebuilt is such a great read. Mike
There is so much BS in this thread that I wouldn't know where to start addressing it so I think I'll just ignore it and move on.
I'll part with a shot of my stock class 996 somehow managing to win another race without blowing up.
Last edited by JimB; 01-01-2006 at 10:18 PM.
