haha yeah you're right - I was horrified when I found out my DME relay needed replacement a few months ago! Imagine my shock, I'm thinking I bought a quality car, and I find out I have to shell out $20 for a part that failed! I'm never buying a 993 again!

 

Hmm, let me see I've owned 996's since early 2001. My 2001 C4 had 52,000 miles on it before I bought my 2004. I now have 33,000 miles on my C4S, that's a total of 85,000 miles on my 996's driving on the most hideous roads in the US without any major engine issues. So I'm only speaking from experience. I guess I've been extremely lucky.

 

I never said the 996 couldn't be a capable and fast track car... I'm just saying you have to budget for a possible engine/transmission failure that can happen at any time. The fact that you're ahead of a GT3 means either you're a better driver, or your car has been prepared better than his. But your car's quality is not in the same leaque as the GT3.

Oh, and they're boring to drive compared to the old cars. But that's my opinion

 

Welcome to Rennlist Gary. RMS is Rear Main Seal, a somewhat common problem on 996s. Rennlist has a great Search function, you can find a wealth of information on any topic, including RMS. I must warn you though, any time someone has a problem with their 996 or Boxster and talks about it (like RMS, coolant leaks, etc), some members here like to pretend these problems aren't a big deal, and like to ignore them.

 

Not as common as you would think by hanging out here but nonetheless still the gift that Porsche gave the 996 community.

 

Hey LVDell, is that you in your sig? Do you have any in-car track vids?

 

Can we please just lock this thread and give poor Joe a new one?

 

Yes that is me. I have about 15-20 hours worth of in car video. I transfer everthing to DVD so I can watch it at home and critique (as best I can) my track time.

 

So now we're back to the crux of the problem re: 993 drivers and 996 drivers. You 993 guys are still 'wetting' your pants that Porsche went to a water-cooled engine that is faster, handles better, and LOOKS better inside and out then your car.

By the way, pay careful attention to used car prices; I've noticed that the 993 values are creeping downward now that the 997 has been released.

Let me reiterate: between my father and I, we have over 40 combined years of Porsche ownership (both new and used each and EXCLUDING the 1995 993 C2 that he sold to a friend of mine that DID have a wiring harness issue resolved for about $900 some years back) and a few hundred thousand miles of seat time. In that time, there has nary been one incident with the engine or powertrain. Alright, in truth, I omitted the time that oilpan ripped off my father's 2000 C4 cab when he accidentally rode over a cinder block lying in the middle of the East Side Drive in Manhattan (indeed, it's wise not to tail cars to closely in this city what with all the crud roads). I think we can agree that the incident was not an RMS failure despite the fact that it was oil-related.

On an aside, when fixed, that C4 cab drove like a champ for another hard 3 years. A similar incident once happend to me in a jeep with an unpainted curb on the East Side Drive a year later and I was stranded. Go figure.

 

Edward, I appreciate your enthusiasm... guess we just have very different opinions. Enjoy your car

 

pcar64- do you actually race your car? I know Jim B does so I value his opinion but like you said earlier on- better driver/ better prepared car- what does that mean? If that is what is implied by you hell you coulda had my '94 toyota corolla station wagon(better prepared/better driver) win a race and you'll still stick by your point the 993 or earlier cars is the better car? Mike

 

I don't know if I follow your haphazard sentence structure correctly, but I'll answer the question I think you're asking...

1) You could conceiveably prepare a Geo Metro to be faster than a 993 around a track. That doesn't necessarily make it the better sportscar. Even if Jim's M96 car is faster than a GT3, that doesn't mean it's a better quality car.

2) It's even possible that Jim's car is slightly slower than the GT3 he's passing, but Jim is simply a better driver. I'm sure Jim can fill us in here, he knows why he's passing that GT3... skill or car Jim?

To answer your other question, no I don't race, I don't have that kind of disposable income yet. But if you think a person's opinion on track performance is made more valid just because he can afford to buy and run a racecar, then my friend you are taking a very simplistic (and utterly foolhearted) view of things. There are DE hobbysists who are faster around a track than many "racers," and there are some racers who probably shouldn't even be DE solo qualified.

Do you think there are local, UNKNOWN musicians who are more talented than multi-platinum rappers? I think the answer is an obvious "YES." But if you judged their talent based on something utterly simplistic, like record sales, you would be an idiot. So don't believe that just because some guy has the funds to race a Porsche in amateur club racing, that he's some sort of badass. I'm friends with plenty of guys who race (amateur and professional), and none of them pretend that they're something special.

 

Gary,
Welcome to the insane asylum! LOL Just kidding. Glad you've stepped into the world of P-car ownership. As you can see from this string you'll get a wide variation of views here. Some from folks who have had MAJOR problems (i.e. bobporsche996) and others like RIADl and the like have been no major problems what so ever. I am a relatively new owner myself having bought my 996 in 2004. I bought mine from a non P-car dealership without a CPO and PPI too. The dealership specialized in high end used exotics and luxury vehicles so they had multiple Porsches, BMW, Mercedes and even a Ferrari or two on their lot to choose from; so that was comforting. Despite of that my car had a coolant tank crack/rupture (common), and had a frayed oil and fuel line when I took it into my independant shop (Thanks IMA, Fairfax VA again for the work and keeping the faith!) to check it out. At that time I also discovered I needed a new clutch and pressure plate as well. That whole repair cost me about $2800 labor included. At that time the folks at IMA did the PPI and gave my car a once over that I should have know to have gotten prior to purchasing it from the dealer I bout it from. I had supposedly covered my bets by purchasing a 3rd party extended warranty who covered nothing and has since gone bankrupt (1st Source Auto Warrany). They wouldn't even cover the coolant tank repair cause the warranty declines to cover any plastic parts or containers or reserevoirs in the fine print nor did they cover the fuel line which had frayed and oil line that was kinked which also was replaced that my mechanic said wasn't my fault. Luckily I then promptly asked them to refund my $$$ prorated of course and got about $2k back out of the $2800 I had spent with them for the warranty in the 1st place. Since then I have gotten a fairly clean bill of health from IMA and the car has run fine. No problems. Knock on wood...here!

I think the gist of it all if I can summarize is:

1) If you buy a car without CPO or from a non dealer you should get a PPI 1st in order to see exactly what you are getting or have bought already (which I didn't know at all before buying and membership here to ask advice would had defnately helped me there)
2) A PPI doesn't guarrantee anything but is more a piece of mind and says that hey this car from what we see and can tell should be good to go. Nothing is absolute but hey the $200 is money well spent probably when you look at $8k for an engine swapout or the $40-50k you're spending on a 996 C2
3) Problems do happen; its a car and cars break down from time to time. Hopefully if your does it is something not catastrophic like bobporsche996 but it that does happen it seems that you're in a better place if you have a CPO or at least some relationship established with the dealer. However just remember its a Porsche NOT a Toyota so be prepared for a greater expense in parts & labor thn you're average Camry. But then again if you're buying a Porsche I kind of expect that to some degree...its common sense.
4) Remeber if your car is used and not CPO or has a detailed hx that you know you're subject to its past. I am and MD so it's like I tell my young and sometimes older patients for those little social problems/complaints; "Remember when you're sleeping with someone...you also are sleeping with everyone they've ever slept with in the past as well...sometimes that's a good thing..other times a horror story!" So a word to the wise and protect yourself accordingly!
5) That said enjoy your car and what will be will be. Just make sure YOU take the best care of it as possible and do timely maintence and hopefully it will love you back just as much a put a smile on your face as well. And at that time when you're ready to sell or trade it on to another future p-car owner who's always dreamt of owning and driving one you'll give them something to drive and be proud of that won't be a headache and more on themselves or their wallet.

The guys/gals in this forum area a great resource and most will anwser questions readily; hell a few have sold me parts for my car they weren't using when I just asked for options of stuff out there or where to shop. Use them as a reource in my opinion and make some new friends but remember the source and no one is right 100% of the time. Rennlist isn't the gospel according to Porsche but it's close!

Enjoy your P-car!
Rob

PS...Bob you did get a bad deal; and like with my M3 Porsche-NA probably should help you out somewhat in a perfect world that is!

 

I just want to throw in how I was treated by Saab when a design fault in the cylinder sleeves lead to major problems. My Saab, a 3.0 V6 TiD, is almost 4 years old and has done well over a 100K miles. Still Saab has replaced the engine at no cost a couple of months ago. Warranty was finished for more than 20 months and the mileage is, even for a diesel, relatively high. Saab Belgium simpy said it's a design flaw and that if the problem would have occured at a later stage, they would do the same. No need to tell that I'm very happy bout this, the cost for a replacement engine, which is made by Isuzu, is a heartbreaking 12.000 euro plus labour plus VAT(confirmed by two sources). I'm back to my fence now, just wanted to share how similar issues are treated by other car manufactures.
PS: Saab makes huge losses, Porsche doesn't

 

Hey, I'm back in this! Here's the deal - I LOVE my 996 - and I'm going to put a motor in (a $6500 factory warrantied motor - by far the best way to go!) and keep it until I'm ready to buy a GT3. But I feel the other Joes or Bobs pain. We expect these cars to hold up and be engineered to do what they are sold to do. We carefully select a cared for car and lovingly maintain it too. Then at less than acceptable milage the motor fails (cracked sleeve?) in a manor not in line with page 17 of my cars sales book "Of course, a Porsche powerplant's performace must be equalled by longevity........Cams and countershafts are driven by chains designed to last the life of your car.....After all, we expect the Porsche 911 will endure for at least another 35 years." I'd like to get 10 years out of mine without a major failure. How can they say the timing chains last the life of the car and not expect the block/liners to last as well.

I believe in the Porsche story: little guy killing giants with legendary durability and performance. I didn't want or expect a new motor, but I would have liked them to say - send the motor back and we'll analyze the issue and make an adjustment if it is warranted. Care and concern. A token refund on the new motor of $1k wouldn't impact Porsche, but it would show concern. Or if they don't want to have a monitary contribution, how about an upgraded oiling kit on the new motor at no cost. That would be great. They don't seem to get the part that we buy these cars not only because what they can do now, but because of what they have done in the past.

I hope someone from Porsche reads this and thinks of a better way to hadle the small number of serious issues, espescially since the Caymen has the same engine as my 996! I don't want to see Porsche's reputation (or the 996's positive attributes) tarnished by a few issues.

PS - I did put the 4th Gen seal in 3K mi ago during a clutch replacement. Never had a RMS issue!

PSS - I challenge the "993-is-the-greatest-Pcar" crowd in the MidAtlantic to come to a Chesapeake Region AutoX for a good old fashioned 996 but kicking!