porch

I own a 2002 C4 Cab and have recently driven a 2005 Boxster. I love the way the Boxster handled (I know the 987 has the advantage of mid-engine design) and wondered if any set of suspension mods (M030, X74, etc) would get the 996 to the 987 level of handling.

kilrgt

I would have to say yes, my 04 c2 with H&R springs with the Bistein sport shocks, with the GT3 sways helps ALOT...

TD in DC

Suspension mods help a lot, but . . . . I personally am partial to the handling of the Boxster. I think that mid-engined is superior to rear-engined, so no amount of mods will make up for that difference. That said, one "flaw," if it can be called that, is that the Boxster will retain its grip (all other things being equal) far longer than a 996, but when it lets go, it spins so quickly that only the best drivers can recover. A rear engined 911 will let go much sooner, but it will give you more warning and it can be easier to control. Think in terms of dynamics and moments . . .

CLL ACAB

I had a Boxster S and noticed that the handling was better than my C4. I opted for the X-74 suspension. Huge difference. If you are looking for improvements in the handling area, a change in the suspension will give you what you are looking for.

Re-animator

Had an '00 Boxster, Boxster S, and '01 996 Cab. Having recently driven a 987, I am impressed. Built my current '02 Carrera Coupe to X74/RoW M030 spec. IMHO, my car is a lot less nervous than the stock 987. It was no contest before, but advantage goes to the 3.6 996. Having had Cab, it appeared that an evoms front strut brace made things a lot crisper up front. The torsional rigidity in a Cab really needs to be bolstered, IMHO. My suspension mods cost about $1K. The Cayman is going to make the stock NA 996 a backseat-er on the track, IMHO. Talk appears to Porsche looking at the Cayman as a platform it can start running in series to help market the Porsche racing heritage via building on it. If sales do well, we will see the Boxster Coupe platform do some damage to other marques. FWIW, the turbo Boxster has already been evaluated at Weissach's test track about 4 years ago. Eyewitnesses from Kramer's board heard the blow off valves cycling while being very impressed with the exercise. I guess paranoia about cannibalized 911 sales haven't happened in 8 years, so Dr. W. is allowing performance expansion of the 98x line. The downside of this platform, as previously stated is the low polar moment of inertia. When the Box lets go, you spin like a top. A bit scarier than leaving the track backwards in classic 911 fashion, IMHO.

arenared

True, the Boxster has a very low polar moment of inertia. But that's what makes it turn so quickly and effortlessly. It's the difference between skidpad numbers and slalom numbers. The Boxster transitions so easily. When I drive friends' M3, Z4, etc. with a front engine/rear wheel drive, the handling balance (F/R weight distribution) is in the same ballpark, but the cars feel heavy/slow, like I'm driving a dumbell. It is true that when you push a Boxster too far, it will let go and also spin on a dime. I just had to recalibrate my internal gyroscope to be more sensitive. I can now drive my Boxster (with some mods, of course) at 10/10 without hardly any worries. It also allows me to drive non-mid engined cars towards their limits rather easily because things happen in relative slow-motion for me compared to the Boxster.

I would say that if you have a 2004 C4, don't worry. It is a beautiful car, and will always be more prestigious than a Boxster. (Better looking than the Cayman photos IMHO.) Although, you have a weight penalty for the AWD, your extra horsepower and traction allows you to put power down a lot more reliably which is something I wish I could do. Without traction control/PSM, if I put too much power down in a corner (or in too low of a gear) in my 986S, I can easily blow the back end out and around. I'm sure your AWD allows for a lot more man-handling and fun in a lot more places. Do some aftermarket mods and you can probably satisfy your thirst for improved handling and more importantly improved fun factor.

When Porsche finally decides to put a TT or GT3 motor in a Cayman, then we can both consider upgrading and get the best of both platforms. For now, I think all 3* are too close--just slightly different personalities. *TT/GT2/GT3 excepted

TD in DC

I agree with everything else you said, but do you really think that AWD is necessary for a 986s? I had a 986S, and I cannot imagine needing AWD to put the power down. Your comment sounds like you are suggesting the power output on a 986S is so prolific that the extra weight of AWD would be justified by the ability to put the power down. Do you really believe that? I didn't feel that way at all. In fact, I personally do not think that AWD is necessary at all for 996s, apart, perhaps, from the TTs. I mean, at most, it might be useful in snow, but even there, I think you are fine with a C2 and good snow tires. Of course, I can imagine that the C4 and C4S owners will come out in droves, but diversity of opinion is a good thing, right?

Re-animator

AWD will slow you down on a dry track, not even considering the weight penalty. 2nd that AWD on a 996 is unnecessary, coming from a 996 TT.

arenared

How true, afterall, variety is the spice of life, right?

I am speaking from the point of view if the power in the Boxster/Cayman platform were significantly increased. At 250 HP to 300 HP, I don't think I would opt for AWD because traction control/PSM would be sufficient when I wanted it. But power in the 350 HP to 400 HP+ range (hypothetically speaking of course), I don't know. I'd probably be willing to trade off some of that HP for AWD. My basis being that it might be "a little too easy" to throttle steer the mid-engine platform. Maybe I'll change my opinion after I put in an LSD (not any time soon, unfortunately)...

Keep those ideas/comments flowing. That's why we're all here...

arenared

Very valuable comment coming from someone having a TT.

How do you feel about AWD the rest of the time when you are not on a dry track, i.e, wet or local backroads/highways assuming you obviously tone it down a bit. Did you ever feel that the AWD gave you that margin to push it a little more than you would have without it? Perhaps, also, the 996 is in less of an need with the rear-engine over the driving wheels.

Re-animator

I believe the rumoured bi-turboed 3.2 986 was doing 350HP "nicely balanced" on the test track.

Re-animator

Basically, the steering feel was impaired with more inherent understeer. I was able to drive a GT2 about a year ago and remembered that it felt like my current C2 Coupe in terms of steering feedback and balance. The power was intoxicating. Having recently driven an '04 GT3, it has instilled a 'must have' impression on my soul. Let's see how much will power one needs to avoid the seduction. Also, coming from many Audis and a WRX; I think street available tire compounds pocess the technology to replace the benefits of AWD in all but snowbound regions. Just $.02.

arenared

Great commentary. In the interest of avoiding marital/financial ruin, I think I need to keep my butt out of a GT2/GT3. My neighbor is in the market for an F-car. That will be bad enough influence...

Sorry, porch, for taking this thread off on an AWD/HP tangent. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread. I love my TRG/GT3 sway bars. There are a lot of other mods you can do. Also, don't underestimate the importance of alignment in terms of feel.

porch

No sweat - I enjoy reading about the AWD stuff since I have one. For me, the AWD feels a little more planted on non-dry pavement, but it probably is a bit of a liability in other cases.

As for the suspension... I just found the 987 handling so amazing compared to my stock 996 suspension - no comparison and frankly somewhat disconcerting. I've heard raves about the transformation that the x74 suspension makes but didn't know where that would get me relative to the 987. That thing was just soooooooo nimble.

porch

OK, tell me about this "re-animated" X74/RoW M030 suspension you put together. What is the recipe and what does it buy you over x74 or ROW M030 by themselves?