Rob in WA

The mid engine design of the Boxster is easier to drive for a novice, but once you get used to using the rear weight bias in a 911 there's no going back. Having said that, I lost the back-end a few times in my previous 911. I swore my next one would be a C4. The C2 996 w/PSM is much more planted then previous C2s, but I like the feeling of being on rails in the corners w/the AWD plus in the rain, which we get from time to time out here, there's no comparison.

porch

I also like my C4 in non-dry conditions.

Given the track times of the 987 vs. 997 and 997S, it seems to me that a 987 with a 997S engine and brakes would kill a 997S.

Kevin H. in Atl..

The 996 GT3 is just one of 13 different 996 models.

It seems to me the premise of your question was whether or not a 996 (rear-engined) can match 987 (mid-engined) handling.

The answer is that it can EXCEED 987 handling (in terms of speed).

Btw, the time I've seen published for 996 GT3 at Hockenheim short ring is 1:13.2 on track-challenge.com. They also show the 3.4L 996 @ 1:15.9. (X74 was not available for the 3.4 IIRC.)

A comprehensive test drive of each of the cars you are interested in should answer your questions regarding their capabilities. The difference between the driving experience of the Boxster and 911 is such that you'll probably prefer one over the other. Drive them both, and you'll know which you like best. Both are fantastic cars.

Kevin H. in Atl..

Porsche publishes dry weights.
Add half a tank of gas and the ratio becomes 47/53.

arenared

I think that's why a lot of us are hoping Porsche will but a big motor in the Cayman. Somewhere, I read a project that was underway to put the 3.8L 987S engine in a 987. Should be a fun car.

I like my convertible 986S, but with my suspension mods, I realize my limiting factor is the torsional rigidity of the chasis. For the ultimate in handling, a seam-welded Cayman would be the best platform--not the Boxster.

I'm just not sold on the Cayman looks, and 295 HP does nothing for me considering the 987S has 280. There are many older 986S's with some aftermarket headers/cats/chip/intake that are making 290HP--and the older 986S is 100lbs lighter. I wouldn't consider a Cayman unless it had the 3.8L or GT3 type motor.

Getting back on subject again, I found there was a lot of room for improvement in my 986S in the areas of handling, so I would guess there is a similar amount of room for improvement in the 996. There are just not too many people that really understand these cars and are more interested in selling snake-oil.

porch

Well yes, the basic rear-engine / mid-engine comparison was part of my question. More specifically my question was: I *own* an 02 C4 Cab and have driven a 987. I liked the 987 handling compared to my car and wanted to know if I could make changes that would get my car to approximate that handling that I liked. BTW, I'm in Roswell.

Kevin H. in Atl..

Yeh, I just realized that the thread (and myself specifically) had gotten a bit off track of your original question.

Both row 030 and x74 are said to eliminate understeer (for the most part, if not entirely) from the 996. You can get your 996 to outcorner a 987, but it will not have the Boxster's light feel, ultra-quick transitioning, and neutral balance at the limit. Some people prefer the Boxster's driving experience to that of the 911. Of the guy's in our local group drives who've moved from a Boxster to a 911 (and there are quite a few), none are considering moving back to a Boxster that I know of.

There are a quite a few threads here regarding row 030 and x74. I did a search recently when shopping for a suspension upgrade, and I decided that for a cab which I drive entirely on the street and only plan to keep for another year, row 030 would be sufficient and is reasonably priced (which I have yet to order and install).

I'm gonna have another mtn drive soon. You should definitely come drive with us. Last drive we had 25 cars. Here's some pics from our last drive: http://www.pcars.us/viewalbum.php?a=268

Kevin H. in Atl..

Here are the actual weights of my friends Boxster S and 2002 Turbo, both weighed on the same four pad racing scales with a full tank of gas:

Boxster S: 47/53 @ 3014 lbs.

2002 Turbo: 38/62 @ 3480 lbs.

Another data point: 996GT2 has additional 130 lbs over the rear axle than GT3.

So, I think the ~40/60 for a normally aspirated 996 is probably accurate.

FWIW.

Re-animator

A little track time comparison at the link.

996 C2 vs. 996 C4

The '98 996 is scrolled at the bottom of the selection boxes to run 3.4s against each other. 5 second advantage to the C2. Power to weight ratios appear to negate the theoretical advantages of AWD on short and long tracks while slalom and evasive test speed advantage go to the C4. View the detailed box in comparison. It appears that at Hockenheim and The Ring the C2 is 'real world' faster than C4 despite better tire management of the tested AWD system. Not to re-direct the thread again, but I just had to get this out.

autobahnNY

Are you talking about Dock? I've seen the threads on PPBB on the 986/987 vs 996/997...I won't even go into that. I'm going with Porsche's specifications. Plus its an accurate way to compare the weight distribution across the board.

autobahnNY

Are you talking about Dock? I've seen the threads on PPBB on the 986/987 vs 996/997...I won't even go into that. I'm going with Porsche's specifications. Plus its an accurate way to compare the weight distribution across the board.

Kevin H. in Atl..

You think Dock is lying about his scales results?

Again, Porsche publishes dry weights. When you put fuel in the car, as you must in order to drive it, it changes the ratios.

autobahnNY

Like I said, I'll go with Porsche's specs. He posted a number of different ratios. Such as without a spare in the front...45.3/54.7( cause I asked). Like I said Porsche's specs are more accurate across the board.

autobahnNY

My bad. It was 45.8/54.2 without spare(he said 30lbs) and top down, (weight shifts forward .01% with top up, according to him)..like I said he posted a lot of ratios.

Kevin H. in Atl..

Again, Porsche publishes dry weights. You can't drive a car dry.

Here's another source: Road & Track "Best all-around Sports Car" comparison test June 18, 2005.
987 S : 47/53
997 S : 39/61

And the mid-engine handling Holy Grail: Lotus Elise: 40/60.

We can quibble over 1%, but the point of my post remains intact. That the weight distribution of the 911 is closer to that of high performance mid-engine designs than that of the Boxster.