Originally Posted by peterp

First of all, I don't really care what happens to the 996 market -- if I win the lottery 10 times in a row, I will still keep the 996.1 I own right now (don't think I can find a better one for my needs). I don't think your comment that people "know" the 996 is accurate at all. Most people are internet educated about the 996, which means they've heard oodles of horrible stuff, and that 996's are the worst car, but they've never driven any 996 (so they don't really know anything about it), nor have they driven any other of the 911 models (so they don't know how the 996 stacks up). The second thing is that even people who own a 996 may not know 996's. Why? Because the way they drive changes completely based upon options (most profoundly Tip or 6sp, 2wd or 4wd, cab or coupe. Unless you've driven all the models of 996, you don't really know what the 996 can be.

We've all benefited purchase-price-wise because of internet-educated ignorance, combined with presumptive ignorance (e.g. Porsche owners who have never driven a 996 but presume it's horrible). I've owned several air-cooled 911's, all of which are worth many multiples of my 996. And even though I am a huge fan of the earlier lightweight 911's, the 996 is profoundly better in every way. It's a highly unique model in Porsche's entire line-up -- it's lighter than the both the 993 and 964 models that came before it (when has that ever happened????) and it only weighs 35 lbs more than the late 80's G50 Carrera 3.2 (but the 996 is profoundly more powerful, plus power steering). The 996 uniquely captures the great light feel of the early cars, but with way more power, better handling, and creature comforts.

Very few people realize any of this about the 996 -- which is the single thing that makes the 996 so special among all 911 models. So, no, people don't know the 996. They just think they do (and literally 99% of them are wrong because they've "learned" about them from the internet). As long as they stay uninformed, we can all buy cheap 996's. Viva la ignorance!

Originally Posted by cqhall

I agree with all of the above.

Here's how that all works:

- When they know, they want. When they want, there is competition to buy. When there is competition to buy, prices go up.
- You've made a great case for why they don't know and will likely never know. And thus, the prices will never go up.

The only thing that will make the prices go up are popular YouTubers, Instagramers, etc... actually buying 996 C2s and convertibles, not Turbos, GT3s, GT2s, and raving about them and thus introducing them to the next generation. They already buy the 996 fast cars and rave about them, and those prices are already inflated.

All of the Porsche people who are gonna buy these either already have them or they are going after budget GT and Turbo cars, like so: https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/com..._not_the_last/

Basically, the internet hype game.

There are lots of internet hype for older cars our there, but they are almost exclusively the top of the range for these cars. The E46 M3, not the E46 325i. The Subaru Impreza WRX, not the Impreza. The E39 M5, not the E39 525i.

I agree that the 996 is a great generation. But, I'm saying that the hype follows the top cars in the line and doesn't really trickle down to the others.

Again, if some YouTuber out there figures out how to take a C2 and get 400-500 HP into it reliably, easily and on a budget, then it can happen. But, I can't see that happening. There are those guys who are putting Audi turbo engines in these. But, I'm not sure how that's going or how much it costs.

Originally Posted by GC996

It's success paved the way for the water cooled 997, 991 and now 992.

Originally Posted by theprf

Selling a $35 Touareg for $100k was rather brilliant.

Originally Posted by 911Syncro

I wonder if we can speculate how the market has changed by type of buyer.

When new, perhaps the 996 was bought by:

• Wealthy people?
• Hard core 911 fans who wanted the latest model?
• Those who thought they'd like a Mercedes, but once the 996 because a modern and refined 911 it then it entered the Mercedes market?
• Regular moms and dads who made some $ in the tech boom?
• And.......

Today, perhaps the 996 buyers are:

• Sports car enthusiasts who can now have a 911 rather than a Miata or a BMW or VW GTI?
• Long time Porsche entry level lovers (944, 912, Boxster) who can now move up to a 911?
• Retired guys who now have the means to get into a Porsche of some kind?
• Collectors: for the ones that have under 15K miles and in excellent condition?
• And.....

I don't know, I am just trying to make educated guesses. But it's not only about the car, it is about the buyer characteristics. Hoping to stimulate thoughts on how the buyer side has changed in 25 years.

Originally Posted by theprf

I agree the 996 was a success beyond what was expected - but the success of the Boxster paved the way for the 996.1 and the success of the Cayenne paved the way for the 997. Selling a $35 Touareg for $100k was rather brilliant.

Originally Posted by 911Syncro

Today, perhaps the 996 buyers are:

• Sports car enthusiasts who can now have a 911 rather than a Miata or a BMW or VW GTI?
• Long time Porsche entry level lovers (944, 912, Boxster) who can now move up to a 911?
• Retired guys who now have the means to get into a Porsche of some kind?
• Collectors: for the ones that have under 15K miles and in excellent condition?
• And.....

Originally Posted by circuit.heart

There are certainly more speculators than there used to be thanks to the 996 clearly being at or near the bottom of the depreciation cycle. There are people that get interested in the platform because it's a cheap *911*; there are folks chomping at the chance to flex they own a *911*, for cheap; there are people who look at the price tag (ignoring maintenance) and ask why they should spend $25k on a used Miata or M3 instead; and there are people like me who bought one to develop stuff for the tinkerers.

I don't think there's anything particularly special about the new buyer demographic, it's the ones that hang on for 20+ years that are interesting since statistically they've spent quite a lot of money keeping a heavily depreciating car online.

Originally Posted by Dennis C

This is an interesting thread. I agree that the 996 generation of the 911 is undervalued in the market. It has been that way for a long time. For reference, I bought my 2002 996 C4S nearly 20 years ago with ~60K miles on the odometer. I paid under $30K for it. I’m not sure what a similar car would fetch today, but I don’t believe that it’s much more than that. For what it’s worth, I loved my 996 and it was a pleasure to own and drive.

My son is currently shopping 996 cars, and he has looked at many examples in the $25K range. Most of them have some kind of issues. These include cosmetic issues, deferred maintenance issues, high mileage, etc. When he does stumble across a good 996 with the right combination of colors, options, and mileage, it is out of his price range.

I won’t pretend to be an expert on what drives prices on cars like the 996, but my guess is that the relatively high production numbers are part of it. I think the 996 is also in a strange spot between the older, air-cooled cars and the modern 911s. My son is in his early 30s. He’s never owned a car that didn’t have bluetooth phone connectivity, Sirius XM radio, etc. The switch to a 996 from his 2018 Macan would be a big step backwards in terms of technology. I don’t know if he’s going to do it or not.