SoCal911t

I learn from the mistakes of people who took my advice.


In spite of a PolySci degree, somehow I ended up in the engineering department of a utility company for over 20 years. I can relate to where you guys are coming from.

I was the smart *** of the department and I loved doing my fake 'spilled coffee' routine. I had times where plans had to be signed by the Director of Engineering or the Deputy Director so I would do this every time we had a new one.
It worked on new employees too that needed their plans signed.

Bloku_

REPLIES:

dporto - lol you can say that again! I have been looking at a few of the "local cars" now.
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isalos - Ghia is going to be kept! I just need to fix her up... shes an amazing car and always manages to start (tho more frequently via a push start rather than via the key and starter -___- )
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bmchan - I love the IDEA of KISS but damn, the last thing I want is the car to explode on me. I would literally cry dude. Not even going to entertain the idea of that happening!

Though I am proud to say that I have officially left the "doing my research" phase and have entered the "I am actually shopping for these cars now" phase and getting a bit of seat time/riding... Now my new main problem is below... getting a PPI (see general post below)
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PV997 - Hahahha! I am (sorry) to say that you're right... I am an electrical engineer. I think I may have mentioned that in my #1 post, but I would not put it past you for not reading my 17,000 word BOOK I posted!

But yea, I am absolutely long winded... Runs in the family. I am the short-winded one in comparison! Yikes hahah. I have been taking it slow, running it past my family and so forth before sending the seller(s) any questions. We got to slowly ramp it up. I did indeed dump a apocalyptic novel. Too much work, but I needed to do it. No need to read it all

I have been weighing the pros and cons of these cars and am scared. In the below "general post" I am now struggling with the fact that in tulsa, NO ONE whos a Porsche mechanic will do a PPI with a borescope... No one... Why is below.

And your reply to GC, thanks,, but you are absloutly right. I need to hold to the 80:20 principal of 20 percent effort, 80 percent completion. There is a time and place for attention to detail... too much and you must remind yourself of KISS hahahah! No need to hold back though. I need to hear these things. I may be 24 but damn the knowledge that my elders have is extreme. I joke that only after HS or college do you really start aging. In that way, I am 2 years old in a way. A big gift and a curse but mostly a blessing IMHO!

I like to try an listen to you experienced guys as much as possible as I look at it like this: You prob were me at one point but took years to learn it. Why do I need to learn it like that too if you are spelling it out how to avoid that! So thanks for the insight! The hard truths are appreciated.
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GC996 - thanks GC, but yea, in hindsight, I did post too much. It would have been better just to chat with some 996 guys over lunch but I dropped by the last few PCA Tulsa meetings an not a 996 in sight. I will eventually drop by just to snoop in my karmann ghia for a bit of street cred, but even then, I don't think many of the guys there might have the info I really need. I am quite jealous of the guys from very big or car centric areas like LA or Dallas... I bet their car scene is CRAZY! I want in to the 996 owners club, but not at the price of a blown engine 6 months into ownership. No-stinkin-thanks.

TBH. this has been quite the hassle... An "exotic" shop I called (for a PPI)basically said he'd never touch a 996 with a 10 ft pole the SOMEONE ELSE is holding... Dechunks, bore scoring, IMS, worn valve guides, Vairocam issues... the list goes on. But thanks to you guys and the internet as a whole, I know what these things are! I think the exotic car guy was as dramatic as I am as he was like "get a real Porsche" and I think thats why these cars are a fraction of the typical 911 cost... I am still seeing that the actual owners of these cars are loving every second and I still want that. I, again, just must be careful and follow protocols.
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Arione - Really about the hostile PCA? I honestly figured... A shame honestly. I will still try my luck though. Can't know for sure until you get there! I am sure every local PCA group is different too. At the end of the day, I would do it for the discount! I found the (below red 996) on autotrader and I am finding the best cars there for some reason. Theres nothing in FB or CL... Also theres nothing on here or on PCA in my area. Sucks but true. I am going to try my luck locally first.. once i win or fail we will try non local... I found a car I want, but theres no PPI's in tulsa, but for (good) reason(s)!
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SoCal911t - We got another one! Even the guy with the red Porsche below is an engineer.... whats with us engineers! Hahhaha. And the spilled coffee routine is savage... I like it!

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GENERAL POST:

So yea, I am checking out this semi rough 996 daily driver and shes got me quite hooked. I need to do my due diligence though. Here is a quick rundown of the car.

The current owner has had it for 10 years, did all his own work, and finally got a 997. Wife needs the "other Porsche" gone and thus, I am a buyer. It has 140k miles, paint in need of a full restoration (guards red), no IMS solution, old 60k mile clutch and flywheel, but otherwise, a very well taken care of car. It is not the color, or the mileage I was looking for and they posted the car for 28k... I'll get to that later

So I am interested, so I went looking for a PPI... Porsche tulsa, NO, Rennsport, will only do a visual PPI (aka no bore scope) NO moving on, the guys on the forum said "go to tom"... well Tom passed away in 2022... Yikes, ok, so I called a bunch of local guys and got told about this exotic car repair shop. I called him and he was like "have you taken cars to me"... no. "sorry, cant do the PPI (this guy was cool and all though, no flack to him). He says no one is doing PPI's as if I told you this car was good and it exploded, what would you do (esp if I had mclaren money), "you'd sue me! and I dont have time for that"! Yikes. ok so now I know why rennsport only does visual PPI's. I can do that too :/ So yea. this sucks man. I had to cook up a new idea and this is what I got:

The owner said that when he did the RMS and IMS (dual row) that he did not do the clutch as it looked great and he never drives it hard... sure sure. So I WILL be doing the LN solution and a new flywheel with all the pieces and that package is NOT cheap. Flywheel is like 1k+ and the LN solution is like 2k. All parts combined we are looking at an easy 5k even when doing it DIY. Thats a talking point. Next the paint, needs that resto. It has a part where the door hit a light post and they used bondo and its cracking. Then the front needs respray and the roof needs clear coat help. Overall very much not perfect.. easy 2k. Then theres just the simple mileage of the car... 140k. not at all low. All suspension is new and it rides VERY VERY well. I like it, but my thought is

I could get an amazing example (perfect paint, 70k miles, great engine, LN bearings, etc) for 32k... 28k for this one? naw. If he cant entertain like a 22k tops, I think its time to walk away.

Back to the PPI situation. He said he has a bore scope (as he does all his own work) and the pistons are good. He is sending me a cold start video today, BaT style with the thermometer and all. Good. Once I get that, I want to make an offer and somehow (in like 250 words or less) mention WHY I am "low balling" and explain these things. He is a cool guy and claims he is looking for someone who will really drive it and enjoy it. Hes an engineer too might I add lol. I am hoping he thinks I am that guy, because I am that guy! So yea. Once he gets that offer and if he accepts (offer is contingent upon assuming a successful PPI), I think we could just do our own PPI. I get the OBD machine to check for the over revs, the cam deviation, and etc. Then We do a leakdown and compression test. Next we do the vacuum of the block (idk about that and need to research), then we take off the pan and bore scope each and every cylinder, finally, just a visual inspection and whatever else I can think of. Then, if (hopefully), its all Green = go, we finally get a 996! **butterflies**

Now, whats on the back of my mind is what the exotic car guy said. He is like: bore score, variocam failure, IMS failure, de-chunk failure, cracked heads, worn valve guides, etc. BE VERY AWARE! These cars will bite you. Then he mentioned that he would buy this car for no more that 18k... thats 10k less than the asking price. I would love to lowball like that, but its so damn unlikely that he would even go for it. The exotic car guy said "this guy would probably be over the moon that you even offered to buy the damn thing AT ALL" Yikes... He then hit me with the "I would just get a real Porsche". After this phone call, I threw away the 996 dream and said naw. I am done, I dont want a 966........... The next day I woke up thinking of the 996 <3. DAMMIT! I just like these cars. Screw the headlight hate, I like it and IDK why. Its someting about them being so old school. I LOVE it! So yea. Thats were I am at gents... I would love to hear your thoughts

Car:

His notes: Rare Guards Red with Black interior and equipped with a 6 speed manual transmission. Clean Carfax History Report with no damage reported (Note from BLOKU: but the door got dented around the drivers handle and the bondo is cracking see photo). The sale includes two keys, upgraded CD player, and Premium Coco floor mats. Intermediate shaft bearing (IMS) and Rear Main Seal (RMS) replaced and all service meticulously performed.



***SEE PAINT/OLD DAMAGE TO DOOR



***SEE PAINT ON ROOF....





***SEE PAINT ON FRONT END

Arione

Apparently I've been living under fogey rock, because I've had the aircooled gatekeeper experience in Florida, Hawaii, and California. a 996 is going to get the same hate my Boxster S and 944 did. PCA is largely a AARP car club built so the top brass get free vacations.

Arione

I would run fast and far from that red 996. It needs body work(really a whole new door) and at that mileage its going to be expensive to maintain with minimal value. If you can get it for less than 10k then maybe. Better off finding a better example in the 25-35k range. Especially with "did all my own work" You are going to want one with dealer records, if not then at least a trusted indy.

Arione

I DMed you a good example of a 2001 6MT base located at Porsche Olmstead in Ohio. This thing looks immaculate at a fair price. however nice 996's are going for 997 money. You may want to look into the 997.1's as well. I sold my 06 C2 2 years ago for 35k with 90k miles on it. It had a few accidents but nothing more than bumpers or once a tacoma backed into it and the hitch destroyed the hood.

ssherman68

Yeah, that car looks like a sub-$25K example. Maybe I'm rusty on my pricing but $28K sounds ridiculous for that.

Your experience highlights the issue with invasive (borescope) PPIs. They're def. a great idea if you can get one. But it's hard to find a shop that actually does them and an owner that's willing to have it done.

The PCA San Diego region have been great for me & we have a lot of rich people around here. I've mostly stuck to the road tours, HPDE events and autocross. You get people that will actually drive their cars at those. I've seen lots of Boxsters at the HPDE events. Most of the 991/992 guys or the $150K aircooled guys won't take their car on a track. I've gone to a few of the local dinner socials that attract more of the well heeled types and they've been nice to me too.

ssherman68

Added to my Amazon cart.

Porschetech3

"Smart Brevity " ...

That has always been my literary protocol. ( I am the opposite of a Journalist ) .

I recently got a looong E-mail from Baz ( Barry Hart /proprietor of Hartech ) complimenting me on a statement he had found that I made on the internet describing the correlations of volumetric efficiency / peak torque / peak horsepower, saying it was "the most concise and accurate description he had ever seen"......yep less can be more ....

Felipe Abbott

64 Ghia, 2nd owner, complete history known.

99 996, 3rd owner, most history known.

Bloku,
Glad to hear that you plan on keeping the Ghia. Much like I mentioned on The Samba website last week. Totally agree with just about everything
members have posted here and over on the cousins VW site. Two different beast for sure and I for one have enjoyed them both to the hilt.
Ghia- Wife says "this car sits so low".
996- Wife says "slow down your going too fast"
You totally get it according to the stable of fine motor cars you have or have had. Take your time my friend! Find what you like and feel is right.
Have it gone over by a PPI you trust and you'll be fine. After all, it's your life and your decision in the end, no one else's.
As for me, "Give me Ghia and Porsche or, give me death".
Felipe de España

wildbilly32

Yeah the internet thing "TLDR" was created for a valid reason...😬

As Sargent Joe Friday said: "Just the facts Ma'am. Just the facts."

GmundtotheWorld

This is only one guy’s opinion. So, take this with a grain of salt: There are no bargains. Only unrevealed surprises/catastrophes. There are cars with less mileage, receipts, and either no body damage, or invisible repairs close to the red car’s asking price. YOU WANNA BUY THAT BETTER CAR. KEEP LOOKING- IT TOOK ME OVER A YEAR TO FIND MY CAR. The pictured car is in reality, a high teens car in my opinion. Figure at least $5k for paint repair and body work to the visible flaws- a full ‘windows in’ repaint is at least $10k- the paint alone is really expensive just to buy the right red paint in a can. Do not Maaco the paint. Knowing you’ll spend $10-15k to get it worth $28k… there is a point where a used Porsche is not a headache- this car looks like a migraine. Your car is out there, keep looking for ‘the one’. Take a breath, and use that analytical mind to put yourself in a winning situation, not just the one that’s available. Best wishes.

Bloku_

REPLIES:

Arione - Dang, ok so check and check about the PCA. I can tell that porsches in general are a very much pay to enter style gig. If you dont pay, YOU DONT GET IN. And shame on you for not paying real porsche money Ha, jokes on you, I over paid for my 996. Jkjk.

But for real, I am a bit put off by taking my hippie looking self in my hippie moble (the ghia) and being like, whatup whatup PCA! I'm Max hahaha! I will do it anyways. Worst case situation is that they are just very aloof and wont hold a conversation. I will just hop back in the ghia, pray she starts, and drive off and attempt to find better people. Something tells me it might be mixed bag though? I will just have to try. Too bad you had those bad experiences though Arion

And I am really really thinking of running fast and far. I was going to offer right at 18k. Do you think that too is too much? EVERY LAST DANG 996 I SEE IS atleast 24k... It sucks. All my life, all 24 years, I have been watching car after car after amazing car inflate in price before I could even have the CHANCE to make big boy money and get one... I was down bad for a VW bus back when I was 12 in 2011 and they were cheap... 10k and below cheap. As soon as I saved my first 4k by mowing lawns, it was 2013, I was 14, and the prices of split window busses had legit gone FAR above 20k mark... Gone. I started thinking of porsches when I went to college in 2019 after HS in 2017 and (tho I was a fried egg hater then) the prices of 996s were sub 20s for even a nice one. As soon as I got that money, they nearly doubled in price... DANG it man. This sucks

I am still thinking of throwing him a 17k offer and seeing what he does. I feel like I may be wasting his time, but that also is the nature of selling a fine mobile like a porsche, is it not? He has every last record from the last 10 years of every fix he did, car felt fricken amazing, but that paint, that lack of IMS solution, that mileage, and the old clutch along with the engine being a big ??? is 10k off in my book. Like the exotic car guy said, I would offer 15k and he should be begging me to buy it. I have gotten a lot of junkers and sub 4k dollar cars before, but I am not at all in my court negotiating with numbers like these. I almost feel like a jerk and IDK why? I am sure I would be happy if I could keep on driving the car for 5 years with just maintenance... IDK though

P.S. I will check out that 996 you sent. I am still down bad, though I am thinking of just saving more and getting a 997.2 as that seems to be just the overall better car and far less of a headache. I just need to do research... It seems ALL PORSCHES BORESCORE and have issues... I just need to see what I am OK with. I want to get a 996 NOW before the prices go up even more, and then save for an FSI engine and put in the the corner of the garage for the day it gets "too many miles" and the engine needs to go. I want that. I don't think that this is the car though. I am looking for somewhat of a forever car so I think I need to find a sub 80k mile example, with the non-flashy paint that I want, and get that, not this. I will just see how this plays out

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ssherman68 - I don't think you're rusty on the pricing! Thats what the modern 996 market WANTS you to think lol! He has his own bore scope and I am thinking I might just pay him to let me come over, and we take the oil pan off and look in there ourselves. He is willing to have it done. He is pretty cool too and I like that. Very much a person who loves their car (but he may be jivin, who knows)

I will def check out the autox and the HPDE around here. I have memories of going to porsche autox's back in the mid 2000s with dad... I have been SICK AND I MEAN SICK with the car bug from the day dad brough back a PS2 and Grand Turismo 4 in 2004... I remember my pure shock and amazement of this "24 h on the lemons thingy?.. huh why is the timer at 23:59:59???" OMZG is this a real thing? IT was... the 24hrs of lemans is amazing. God I love motorsport. I am an avid sim racer as well and am STILL sick with it. I am very much thinking I should just upgrade my sim rig to the pro level (4k dollar rig) and be done with this 996 dream for a few years, but if the right one comes along, I would be foolish not to get it. I still feel a bit of haste though

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Felipe Abbott - You have great taste in cars Funny thing rq... In the Christmas stop motion film, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer, there is a scene where there is an island of misfit toys that no one wants. The king of the island is King Moonraiser. I want my dad and I to name our little shop "Moonraiser Auto Works" lol! All we have are misfit cars and the 996 seems to fit right in at home

Ghia is great. I am thinking I just need to max out the ghia's potential and build her a nice motor, and get every last spec of rust gone and so forth. That would be great as she really is a mini porsche IMHO. A true poor mans porsche 356 thru and thru. I even plan to weld vert rockers in when I replace the rockers as to get that added stiffness but on a hard top. Also I am thinking of X frame on the pan with a roll bar for some sort of crash safety and stiffness. Still fun stuff!

I will be taking the time. This car came along and I still think I aught to entertain it. Now 28k of entertain? NAW! But 18k of entertain... hummmmmm maybe
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GmundtotheWorld - There are not bargains... onl unrevealed surprises... Yikes. Yea, the goal is to have no supprises. I am really thinking I shall keep looking. Actually, I will keep looking. I will see how low he will go, but yea, time to move on. Many thanks sir,

THANKS TO ALL!!!

california996C4

All I can tell you is that I recently (March this year) bought a 2002 Carrera 4 Cabrio. It needed work, hydraulic cylinders for top leaking, oil change needed, window regulator needed, cosmetics (shift boot, gear lever, trim pieces) AC compressor. Mechanics were sound, clutch solid, no metal in oil or filter, 98K miles. Runs great, very quick and solid. I fixed all those little things myself with the help of YouTube, and after buying it for $14,500 I am now into it for about $16,000. As I look at others for sale it is worth at least $20K.
Keep looking, 28K for that one is way high.

Mike Murphy

I would not buy a 996 if I were you. I wouldn’t buy a Porsche either. I was making over 6 figures when I bought a $6,200 8 yr-old Mini Cooper S. At 24, I bought a $2300 motorcycle (A Honda Shadow ACE - which is a poor man’s Harley) and instead put $12,000 down on my first property (and a place to live).

Get yourself a $10k poor man’s Porsche. Maybe a Toyota 86, Miata, or some other great sports car that’s going to be cheaper to operate.

You want a high bang for your buck, and a Porsche is more buck than bang.

cqhall

Yeah, @Bloku_, have you considered other German enthusiast cars? Dollar for dollar and hour for hour, you could get into an Cayman, M3, M5, S4, RS5, C63 AMG, E63 AMG, E55 AMG, etc... a lot faster with a similar (if not better) driving experience.

I bought a neglected E55 AMG (with 'good bones') for $8K, put another $15K into it (including air suspension swap for coilovers) and it was amazing. And I did most of the work myself in my garage.

Damn near everything is more expensive for anything for Porsches. The "Porsche Tax" is real. And while they really are special cars, most certainly aren't worth it when compared to other options. It's only worth it when you have to have a Porsche 911. And then, it's a labor of love.

Personally, I had to have a 911.

If I took the money I spent on my C4S (stock with lowering springs), I would have a really f*cking amazing M3. Amazing condition, spec, mileage, mods. Amazing everything.