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Yep, we have too much bitching and moaning. Seems that everyone wants a box of tissues, comfort blanket and trophy with every product.
What we should want is as many manufacturers as possible to design, develop and sell solutions for the 996. The market will ultimately determine their worth by sales volume. If the product or concept is successful, competitors move in providing more choice. If it's not, then the product space goes vacant. Certainly helps that 996 prices have gone up thru the pandemic and are now holding their own thru the economic mess we are in.
But human nature is such that some folks get rubbed the wrong way and just can't stop bitching and moaning. Go figure.
Comes down to looking at the available solutions and seeing what's right for any of us and then proceed forward. If no solution is right, then sell your car and buy something else.
Don't know if I will ever spend $75k on any rebuild, but when I finalize what i want in a rebuild sometime in the future, it will contain the best of the best from LN, FSI, Skip and others. Why, because they are the guys that manufacture and design stuff specifically for the M96. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few more enter this space in 2023. Why? Because the M9X space is freaking huge and hot.
If many haven't figured it out, we are going thru a second wave of new solutions being manufactured for the M9X engine that looks to be pretty damn exciting.
It's surprising to me that a motorbuild for any car can cost $75k .
Ya, me also...
And I've built some expensive exotic motor sports engines. Many have ended up on the podium.
Suppose its ultimately up to the consumer to decide if there is value in putting a $75g engine in a $30-40,000 20 year old car....
Some nice 996/997 TT or GT cars for 75k or under that would be worth considering for myself if a monster75k engine was also being considered... That 2.7T 450-500hp engine swap sure is looking better and better for 15k, with decent used replacement engines going for $1500 or less.
From my research, even a DIY stock bore 3.4 re-nik'd properly by US Chrome or Millennium technologies, heads done right, and built using only normally needed rebuild parts,,, cost upward of 15k all said and installed & running good. and you still have a 300hp 5 chain M96 failure prone purist approved engine....
Is a 4.3 litre 75k 400+ hp 'R' engine still considered ok for the Porsche purist car...? whats the warranty on the R engines...?
Not trying to insult anyone, just totally baffled that this extravagant 75k engine service is so in demand its backorded for many months. So it seems many find a great value in it. not judging anyone, just don't understand the rea$oning...
Is a 4.3 litre 75k 400+ hp 'R' engine still considered ok for the Porsche purist car...? whats the warranty on the R engines...?
Not trying to insult anyone, just totally baffled that this extravagant 75k engine service is so in demand its backorded for many months. So it seems many find a great value in it. not judging anyone, just don't understand the rea$oning...
Jake selects the R- Series jobs, so I will only tell you what I know:
No warranty is given. Jake feels that if he can't break it that it won't break. I sat in on a conversation with a potential buyer and the person never even asked the question, Jake brought it up to him first and told him that if he needed a warranty to feel secure in the purchase that we could just end the call at that time.
On the flip side of things one purchaser has two R- Series engines and has bought several more of various specs from FSI over the past 20 years or so. He has another engine being built now, which is a 4.1L 993 based power plant.
There are no more back orders, so the wait lists that I see people quote of months or years are not correct any longer. Once the line was tagged last February the goal was to end backlog and commitments of time or money. The R- Series builds are just taken on one at a time, when Jake finishes one, if he wants to take on another. He has a list for those that he manages himself, and only he deals with the R- Series purchasers these days. I know he has a list of 4-5 after taking on an R40@4.1 last month so the demand is there.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a few more enter this space in 2023. Why? Because the M9X space is freaking huge and hot.
The issue is the common place items to support this are fading away fast. Aside from Jake not wanting to be involved in business any longer, the choice to slow down production was being made by shortages and NLA items.
It seems that every couple of weeks something else is no longer available, or has a delivery time that is in the dozens of weeks. It will be very hard for someone new to enter this race and expect to finish it, because they won't be established.
The companies that do get these components want their longest time customers to get them, and that is where adding FSI to the LN umbrella made sense. It allowed our already substantial buying power and position in the market to double. At LN we already have a huge advantage with the wholesalers that we source parts from, because these same companies buy and re-sell our products, most of which FSI has developed. They want to by from us, and they want to get the products that their competitors can't get- so they want to keep us happy.
No one else in the industry shares this relationship, of the wholesaler not just feeding them with parts, but the same wholesaler also being a large purchaser of their products. This benefit and edge is how we have had parts in stock that no one else has, and sometimes we have to buy them all to maintain this.
Being able to manufacture our own parts in house is also another benefit. This is where Jake has been a valued member of the team, being able to invent, develop and test things for LN to manufacture. Some of these are simple things, others are special tools, or exhaust systems, or full induction systems, or camshafts. Lots of these items FSI has been using for years, but they never sold them, simply because sales were a pain in their ***.
Things as simple as gaskets and seals are hard to get, and most won't be easy to get in the future. The manufacturers are worried about feeding VAG new car production as a whole, and they can't risk losing contracts with them, so older cars and engines don't have the priority. This isn't limited to Porsche, or even imported vehicles. Lots of the things that are being offered have had manufacturing changes occur, and are not the same. As an example we've seen timing chains with the wrong number of links, fuel pumps bad right out of the box and knock sensors that had the wrong specifications. Pistons have to be measured in every axis and have crazy QC done to them, because no matter who makes them, they can have a QC issue after waiting 40 weeks+ for delivery. Lots of these defects can't be seen, so they have to be measured very objectively.
The key has been balancing out how many engines FSI wants to build Vs the amount of engines FSI can get the parts to build. The answer is the production was cut in half, but the development of new products and testing has more than doubled, to bridge the gap.
As you guys will see very soon, the new program is great for everyone (except the guys who think that this change is leading a void in the marketplace).
Just a glimpse of what is required to properly QC all aspects of a piston.
Jake and I had a text conversation yesterday . He sent me a pic of something new coming down the pipeline for the exhaust . That's all I can say at the moment but there is some sweet products coming in the next few months !
Jake and I had a text conversation yesterday . He sent me a pic of something new coming down the pipeline for the exhaust . That's all I can say at the moment but there is some sweet products coming in the next few months !
Yes, he shared a picture and some details with the other FSI engine owners.
He didn’t give all the details, but his hint has me excited to see more.
I think I know the “why”, but can’t wait to see if I’m correct.
Jake and Charles @ LN went well, well, above and beyond in the unique situation that brought us together. They are unlike most businessmen I've dealt with in my life, and though we have never met in person, I have the utmost respect for them and will defend their integrity against all challenges. Men of their word are a dying breed in today's society.
Jake and Charles @ LN went well, well, above and beyond in the unique situation that brought us together. They are unlike most businessmen I've dealt with in my life, and though we have never met in person, I have the utmost respect for them and will defend their integrity against all challenges. Men of their word are a dying breed in today's society.
I'm one of the people who locked into the old FSI program for Q2 2023.The end of the line. I don't think my engine is the very last but it is very close. I feel lucky.
I knew full well what the costs would be before I signed a single document. To be honest I had a pretty good idea even before I began exploring an engine from FSI. The engine, all by itself, is going to cost more than I paid for the car. Then there is the FSI-certified removal and installation, and on top of that there is all of the "while you're in there" stuff. When it is all said and done I will have invested far more than I can ever imagine getting back when I sell the car. And this is just the engine! I also spent a pretty penny refreshing the suspension. I have plans for the interior also.
I could spend a bunch of time and energy explaining to you all why I did what I did. I won't. It boils down to this: when I'm done it will be the Porsche 911 I want.
I could spend a bunch of time and energy explaining to you all why I did what I did. I won't. It boils down to this: when I'm done it will be the Porsche 911 I want.
Great attitude! You will enjoy whatever you are having done, I am sure as the FSI engine AND process is fantastic.
I'm one of the people who locked into the old FSI program for Q2 2023.The end of the line. I don't think my engine is the very last but it is very close. I feel lucky.
I knew full well what the costs would be before I signed a single document. To be honest I had a pretty good idea even before I began exploring an engine from FSI. The engine, all by itself, is going to cost more than I paid for the car. Then there is the FSI-certified removal and installation, and on top of that there is all of the "while you're in there" stuff. When it is all said and done I will have invested far more than I can ever imagine getting back when I sell the car. And this is just the engine! I also spent a pretty penny refreshing the suspension. I have plans for the interior also.
I could spend a bunch of time and energy explaining to you all why I did what I did. I won't. It boils down to this: when I'm done it will be the Porsche 911 I want.
According to the order the engine blocks are processed in here at LN, you could be very last, or second to last.. Pretty epic spot to be.
Since your job was being carried out as a “Premier” using the Certified Installer you are actually following the same procedure as the new program. FSI has completed 14 “Premier” jobs per year since 2015. Each installed by a Certified Installer following the checklists from engine extraction to first start and logging data for the first 120 miles.
The new program really isn’t new- it’s the same as the Premier program, but the difference is that now it’s the only way to get an FSI engine. The whole Premier program is worked out and has been for years, so it was time to move all engines to this platform, and simplify things.
Jake selects the R- Series jobs, so I will only tell you what I know:
No warranty is given. Jake feels that if he can't break it that it won't break. I sat in on a conversation with a potential buyer and the person never even asked the question, Jake brought it up to him first and told him that if he needed a warranty to feel secure in the purchase that we could just end the call at that time.
On the flip side of things one purchaser has two R- Series engines and has bought several more of various specs from FSI over the past 20 years or so. He has another engine being built now, which is a 4.1L 993 based power plant.
There are no more back orders, so the wait lists that I see people quote of months or years are not correct any longer. Once the line was tagged last February the goal was to end backlog and commitments of time or money. The R- Series builds are just taken on one at a time, when Jake finishes one, if he wants to take on another. He has a list for those that he manages himself, and only he deals with the R- Series purchasers these days. I know he has a list of 4-5 after taking on an R40@4.1 last month so the demand is there.
The issue is the common place items to support this are fading away fast. Aside from Jake not wanting to be involved in business any longer, the choice to slow down production was being made by shortages and NLA items.
It seems that every couple of weeks something else is no longer available, or has a delivery time that is in the dozens of weeks. It will be very hard for someone new to enter this race and expect to finish it, because they won't be established.
The companies that do get these components want their longest time customers to get them, and that is where adding FSI to the LN umbrella made sense. It allowed our already substantial buying power and position in the market to double. At LN we already have a huge advantage with the wholesalers that we source parts from, because these same companies buy and re-sell our products, most of which FSI has developed. They want to by from us, and they want to get the products that their competitors can't get- so they want to keep us happy.
No one else in the industry shares this relationship, of the wholesaler not just feeding them with parts, but the same wholesaler also being a large purchaser of their products. This benefit and edge is how we have had parts in stock that no one else has, and sometimes we have to buy them all to maintain this.
Being able to manufacture our own parts in house is also another benefit. This is where Jake has been a valued member of the team, being able to invent, develop and test things for LN to manufacture. Some of these are simple things, others are special tools, or exhaust systems, or full induction systems, or camshafts. Lots of these items FSI has been using for years, but they never sold them, simply because sales were a pain in their ***.
Things as simple as gaskets and seals are hard to get, and most won't be easy to get in the future. The manufacturers are worried about feeding VAG new car production as a whole, and they can't risk losing contracts with them, so older cars and engines don't have the priority. This isn't limited to Porsche, or even imported vehicles. Lots of the things that are being offered have had manufacturing changes occur, and are not the same. As an example we've seen timing chains with the wrong number of links, fuel pumps bad right out of the box and knock sensors that had the wrong specifications. Pistons have to be measured in every axis and have crazy QC done to them, because no matter who makes them, they can have a QC issue after waiting 40 weeks+ for delivery. Lots of these defects can't be seen, so they have to be measured very objectively.
The key has been balancing out how many engines FSI wants to build Vs the amount of engines FSI can get the parts to build. The answer is the production was cut in half, but the development of new products and testing has more than doubled, to bridge the gap.
As you guys will see very soon, the new program is great for everyone (except the guys who think that this change is leading a void in the marketplace).
Just a glimpse of what is required to properly QC all aspects of a piston.
@lnengineering
Does LN QC all piston sets that they sell at retail with their Nickies service? I ask since I just received my block and Mahle pistons and am wondering if I need to inspect them. And the K1 rods.
When I bought my rollbar back in 2018, the person selling it told me I should just buy his 996.2 GT3 track car as I'd save money over making a C2 that could never be even close to as quick as a GT3.
Well looking back, I'm going to come out about the same overall cost but I'm ending up with a vehicle with a lighter #/HP, a better torque curve, newer suspension, and in MUCH better overall condition.
To me the money I've spent is well worth it.
I recently did the #/HP calculations against all the generation Carrera, GT3, Turbo, GT2 variants.
My lightened 996.2 with a Stage II 4.0 actually does quite well on paper.
It's not the lowest by any means, but it is better than all of the Carreras and some of the GT3s and Turbos.
mr. Bruce you should be getting real ansi about your car. Anyway since you have some inside into The development, should I buy the x51 manifolds or should I wait to see what FSI will be selling. This is for the 99. Anyway on another subject and sorry for deviating this my recent experience with VIOC where i took my turbo for an oil change is a total fiasco
and reinforces that you in a way, pay for the knowledge and expertise. Never go to a wack something as simple as an oil change has ended up in god knows what. If you want details go to the 996 turbo forum and read the thread Car will not go into gear. A final comment I want to solve the issue and get my turbo back, when the upgraded tune is done the car will be close to 600 hp. That I’m Ansy to see and drive. For sale at Craigslist When these cars are running right, the adrenaline rush is unbelievable. As mr Bruce has said more power less weight. That shark blue manual 718 spyder with yellow accents,deviated stitching, yellow gauges brake calipers And seatbelts a sure beauty, however I got into the seat and believe it or not my 996s are more comfortable cars for me.
What do you get in performance improvement for $2,000?
on older vws (16v sciroccos, corrado vr6, and gtis) we would gasket match with a dremmel and send the manifolds to get extrude honed. Decent performance gain but off course a lot cheaper. Just my thinking I have the Carrera s 3.8 airbox, the throttle body has been bored, I have the ipd plenum so maybe the factory manifolds could be the bottleneck. Anyway in case i blow the engine, I know where I got to get the build motor and all this extra performance stuff will just be bolted in to the new rebuild. This manifold has to be better how much I don’t know but maybe some state of the art 3D printed 20 year newer stuff would be awesome.
@lnengineering
Does LN QC all piston sets that they sell at retail with their Nickies service? I ask since I just received my block and Mahle pistons and am wondering if I need to inspect them. And the K1 rods.
All products manufactured and finished by LN Engineering see fully detailed QC before shipping.
Of all the pistons offered, Mahle Motorsport has the best QC out of the box. Mahle actually sends a card with the critical dimensions of each set of pistons, and no one else does this.
Last edited by BRS-LN; 01-03-2023 at 12:34 PM.
Reason: grammar error
01-02-2023 | 01:31 PM
