I take it as he wants to see how much hp is increased thru reduced friction. I'm curious....can't be that much ....??

 

 

+1. Seriously though, I appreciate the FSI development and I love my 996 as much as the next guy here but if I had ~$75k burning a hole in my pocket and I had the need for speed at the same time, my 996 will be getting sold tomorrow. For the total money I'd be getting a GT4 with high miles on it and sending it out to DeMan Motorsports for their 4.5L upgrade for about $30 - $35k. The result is a car that is more powerful than the 991 GT3RS for around $110k? I think they end up with around 500hp and torque all over. All that without the runaround and hoping I get selected to have my engine built for me.

 

This is the way one factor at a time development is done.
Removing friction is one factor, but that isn’t everything when it comes to a ring and cylinder combination. Sealing is a key factor in this, and the current study is one that focuses not on power differentials, but “blow by”.
The goal has always been for the SUMEbore not to really be better than Nikasil, but rather be a “just as good replacement “ for Nikasil.
We know that with each new environmental consideration that is passed that Nikasil can go away because it is a plating process that has a lot of acids and rinses that are not environmentally friendly.
The while idea behind SUMEbore is to have the process perfected before we need it.
We are very close at this point, but still have more to learn. Ring selection and cylinder finish have been a huge learning curve, since we’ve had to gather all the info empirically with zero assistance from anyone other than Total Seal Piston Rings who have partnered with us on this since the very beginning.

As far as spending money on the 996 goes:
lots of people that call in or write do not like the newer cars. They want a simpler car that is smaller overall and is more analog. Many of these are people who have had newer 911 variants.
One good example is the customer that Jake finished an R43 for a month or so ago for his 997.1 factory X51 car. He is selling his 2018 GT3 in the spring and will keep the R43 997.1 long term. Everyone is different and consider different. At LN and FSI we provide components, services and engines for every generation of Porsche from 356 pre-A to 992.

 

That's a bit of a silly example, don't you think? A 997.1 with X51 is a very different car from a 2018 GT3. You're comparing a car made for the track that can also be driven on the road, with some compromises, VS a relatively quick daily sports / touring car that could be used for an occasional fun track day. They provide a different driving experience on several levels (not just engine) and it seems like the owner doesn't want to deal with the compromises that come with a GT car but wants equivalent power in a more comfortable body. The car size statement is getting a bit tired, especially when you consider that most GT3 cars had rear steering that essentially shrinks how the car feels in size. Let's not discount that the current going rate for a 2018 GT3 is around $200k average, which will make the R43 engine essentially free. Heck, he could buy a 997.1 AND the R43 and still have money left over after selling the GT3.

 

Not an example at all. Just a fact that proves that not everyone is interested in the newer car, or the one that was a higher performer from the factory.
These are traits that we see more and more. They are driving factors in the demand for what we continue to develop for the M9X engine.

 

I guess what is anyone’s point in any comments related to price/“worth” of these builds? They are worth what people will pay, and currently that is quite a bit. They aren’t worth that to you, good there aren’t many available anyway, someone will gladly take your spot in line. Worth it but can’t afford it, keep saving your $. Not worth it and want to judge others who feel it is, go pound sand, your opinion means way less than your ego makes you think.

 

Yep. To see this in action, all you gotta do is go to a PCA club race at one of the premier tracks. COTA, Daytona, Road America...

You will see more money in wild *** RVs and built cars that will blow your mind. Importantly, it's not just the cost to build it, it's the money that is spent on an annual basis to keep it running in top form that will blow you away. Yes, there are a number of folks with the means to spend big bucks to get what they want. I say go for it if you want. If not, no worries.

 

When I bought my rollbar back in 2018, the person selling it told me I should just buy his 996.2 GT3 track car as I'd save money over making a C2 that could never be even close to as quick as a GT3.
Well looking back, I'm going to come out about the same overall cost but I'm ending up with a vehicle with a lighter #/HP, a better torque curve, newer suspension, and in MUCH better overall condition.
To me the money I've spent is well worth it.

I recently did the #/HP calculations against all the generation Carrera, GT3, Turbo, GT2 variants.
My lightened 996.2 with a Stage II 4.0 actually does quite well on paper.
It's not the lowest by any means, but it is better than all of the Carreras and some of the GT3s and Turbos.

 

Whats the weight of your car?

 

Pretty much. The idea of nuking that much money on a M96.0x of all things is nauseating. I've yet to see any dyno from FSI for an M96 that looked like it was worth spending money on.

 

That is your opinion and is definitely not shared by everyone else, as Flat Six had a waiting list for their engines. Just because it is not worth it to you, don’t begrudge others as to how they spend their money.

 

Love seeing all the FSI guys come out defending a $75K motor. Goes to show how no matter the absurdity, it will never be absurd enough for all of you.

He should build a motor for a $100K next, maybe it would crack 400 wheel.

 

Jason - do you really need to be so obnoxious *all* the time? All you ever do on this board is crap all over people who willingly bought a product that they are happy with. And because it doesn’t align with whatever you have going on internally, you bring negativity. We get it - you have some burr in your saddle about FSI.

Give it a rest and post your grief somewhere else.

 

Have you driven one? I personally think the 996 is turning into a future classic and these engines can’t be described by looking at a dyno or even in words, they have to be experienced. I am sorry that the idea of someone else spending their $ makes you sick, seems a bit odd to me.