Bore scoring
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From: Illinois
Drifting
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From: Washington DC
I think engines that use no oil and/or have over fueling issues ( bad MAF sensor or fuel injectors) are more likely to have bore scoring than one that uses a quart oil every 1k miles ( more lube on the cylinders) ... I often wonder if using a "top end lube" would prevent borscoring by adding more protection for the cylinders...
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From: Alabama USA
Skip - this is an interesting statement and sort of makes sense. I assume this means that the oil is getting past piston rings, specifically the oil control ring and the car is not consuming oil via bad AOS or a leak. Speaking with one local shop, they have seen a few cars with bad carbon deposits on rings which caused heavy oil consumption. Result of long oil drain intervals that caused this over time. This is something rarely discussed anywhere in the Porsche world but seems to be a huge problem with some cars - Prius being one example. That's right - a Toyota, believe it or not. Quite a few injector cleaner and gas additives tend to claim to add upper cylinder lubricity so might not be a bad idea to use at least every so often.
I have involved with 2-strokes all my life in Racing dirt bikes and outboards and cylinder/piston scoring has always been an issue for some people. Since 2-strokes have no oil sump around the crankshaft all lubrication has to be pre-mixed or injected in with the fuel . People who use the wrong mixture or try to cheap out on top end lube usually pay the price...It just seems logical that a quality pre-mix lube injected in with the fuel would do nothing but help protect the cylinders.....The only risk would be carbon build-up on piston tops or may have to replace the cats a little more early/often like maybe 80k instead of 120k ..
It would be one hell of a thing to prove/test though .....would take years and years...
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From: the perimeter
you make some good points. In the 10 odd years ive owned a 996TT I have maybe seen 2-3 catastrophic engine failures pop up on the forums. We see that many every month here on the 996 n/a forum...Failed coolant pipes are an inconvenience at worst and a pretty easy and cheap fix in the scheme of things. Agreed, all engines were out from use, but the M96 has a tendancy to grenade itself that is higher than it should be. Replacing/rebuilding an M96 costs more than half the price of the car which is kind of nuts if you think about it.
Originally Posted by https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-911-996-sales-production-numbers
In total, there were 104,312 996 Coupes produced, 65,700 Cabriolet body styles and 5,152 Targas. The specials included the Millenium Edition 911 which sold 911 units. The Anniversary Edition totalled 1,963 units and the GT3 came in at 5,894 units produced. The Turbo sold well with 21,954 units made, while the rare GT2 was a low-volume 1287 unit car.
Drifting
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From: Washington DC
That guy is notorious for stating incorrect or inaccurate information. First thing out of his mount: "First of all, a 996 is not common for bore scoring because it has steel sleeves and not the coated sleeves". I stopped listening after that.
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From: Illinois
TAKE A GOOD LOOK at this list of Alusil engines.
What we are discussing here is not just porsche engines, it's Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. But most don't know it because they don't keep their cars long enough to know any better.
Good news is we know what to do to prevent it and/or treat it compliments of the RL forum. Unfortunately, the other guys don't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alusil
What we are discussing here is not just porsche engines, it's Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. But most don't know it because they don't keep their cars long enough to know any better.
Good news is we know what to do to prevent it and/or treat it compliments of the RL forum. Unfortunately, the other guys don't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alusil
Last edited by GC996; Dec 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM.
Pro
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from the comments of that video:
"The M96 had a different composition Lokasil sleeve cast into the cylinder case and the piston skirts had a ferrite coating. Due to government regulation the M97 had a less durable coating on the piston skirts and the new Lokasil sleeves destroyed the piston coating and then the sleeves. In some ways the M96 5 chain was better than the M97 3 chain engine."
"The ferrostan coating on the 996.1 pistons was replaced by a non-ferrous material (grafal) to comply with environmental concerns about production by-products starting in '02. The grafal was far less durable than the ferrostan and led to bore scoring earlier in the engine's life, especially with fuel injectors that leaked with age. The early cars are still susceptible to bore scoring due to the lokisil cylinder material, just takes longer."
and of course the definitive:
"996.2 gets bore score not the 996.1 I had both"
This guy had both. End of discussion. /thread.
"The M96 had a different composition Lokasil sleeve cast into the cylinder case and the piston skirts had a ferrite coating. Due to government regulation the M97 had a less durable coating on the piston skirts and the new Lokasil sleeves destroyed the piston coating and then the sleeves. In some ways the M96 5 chain was better than the M97 3 chain engine."
"The ferrostan coating on the 996.1 pistons was replaced by a non-ferrous material (grafal) to comply with environmental concerns about production by-products starting in '02. The grafal was far less durable than the ferrostan and led to bore scoring earlier in the engine's life, especially with fuel injectors that leaked with age. The early cars are still susceptible to bore scoring due to the lokisil cylinder material, just takes longer."
and of course the definitive:
"996.2 gets bore score not the 996.1 I had both"
This guy had both. End of discussion. /thread.
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RL Community Team
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Wow, lots of disinformation in such a short amount of time.
I guess someone should tell Jake Raby that Nathan said the M96 doesn't normally have bore scoring.
Jake has had lots of customers send them their engines for no reason. "It's just cosmetic!"
Also tell Charles Navarro at LN that he doesn't need to sell Nickies anymore, Nathan says it's not needed.
On another note, I saw a 4 YouTube series yesterday that showed the process of boring the M96 cylinders and installing/boring/honing steel liners.
While I believe that Nickies are superior, the process was interesting to see.
The machine shop that did the work, did not look nearly as clean as the LN Engineering shop. (I've watched videos from them as well)
The steel liner machine shop looked like what you'd expect for a budget price.
Here's part 1:
I guess someone should tell Jake Raby that Nathan said the M96 doesn't normally have bore scoring.
Jake has had lots of customers send them their engines for no reason. "It's just cosmetic!"
Also tell Charles Navarro at LN that he doesn't need to sell Nickies anymore, Nathan says it's not needed.
On another note, I saw a 4 YouTube series yesterday that showed the process of boring the M96 cylinders and installing/boring/honing steel liners.
While I believe that Nickies are superior, the process was interesting to see.
The machine shop that did the work, did not look nearly as clean as the LN Engineering shop. (I've watched videos from them as well)
The steel liner machine shop looked like what you'd expect for a budget price.
Here's part 1:
Last edited by TexSquirrel; Dec 6, 2022 at 06:56 PM.