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DreamCarrera, when I replaced my 1999 Boxster Base's IMS bearing at 72K miles, the original dual row bearing was wobbly on its center stud. I would guess that it had less than 5K miles in it before total failure and the catastrophic consequences for my engine. I had purchased the car with 52K miles, and had religiously changed the oil/filter at 4k mile intervals, and had dissected the filters and never found more than the odd flake or two of metallic material. Just be aware the dual row bearings are wear items and do fail, as the old saying goes, "you can pay me now or pay me later". The only problem with this as that the pay me later part implicates total rebuild of an engine damaged by IMS bearing swarf circulating through all the oil passages and moving parts. Your gamble.
Less than 5K miles before total failure...wow, what makes you think that your "wobbly" bearing would have lasted that long? Did you play the lottery when you fortuitously replaced your "wobbly" bearing at this mileage interval? Why did you replace the bearing at this interval and what makes you think you were so lucky...?
A bit of an update and some additional info. I pulled the filter a few mins ago. The new oil has about 100 miles on it before I parked it. No noticeable metal, but more non metallic green pieces. They’re brittle. Can split one with my fingernail. Picture attached.
DreamCarrera, my experience results from having conducted a lot of research on this and other Porsche platforms. Other people's catastrophic engine failures inspired me to change out my 1999 C2 and 1999 Boxster IMS bearings. Both of these cars would have had the factory dual row bearing, and both had about 70K miles on their engines. Research had suggested 60K miles, about the same time a clutch change is due, was a good time to do the IMS bearing. So I decided to do the whole service on both cars. When I did the Carrera, I found it had a replacement engine with the 3rd generation larger single row IMS bearing so it was left in place as these have a less than 1% failure rate. When I did the Boxster, I found the factory dual row bearing in very wobbly condition, perhaps 5K miles was too generous. I'm an ex-Philadelphia Naval Shipyard machinist, so I have some degree of mechanical apprehension. Anyway, maybe it was just luck that I replaced that bearing when I did, but the point is that it was a factory dual row on a well maintained vehicle and it was failing, and it was going to cost a lot of many to make it right again. Also, the peace of mind changing out the IMS bearing gave me was worth the $400 for the Vertex cylindrical roller bearing I installed. People are free to do as they will with their Porsches, I'm just offering my experience in response to your questions.
When did Porsche started selling the IMS bearing and when did dealers started replacing them? Porsche never sold the bearing on it's own.
Porsche did in fact sell a few "IMSB kits" but it was quickly dissipated from the catalogue.
Also "some" dealers would install aftermarket IMS bearing at customer request. The Porsche dealer I worked for would not (unless the customer provided his own part and all labor warranty was voided)...
Porsche did in fact sell a few "IMSB kits" but it was quickly dissipated from the catalogue.
Also "some" dealers would install aftermarket IMS bearing at customer request. The Porsche dealer I worked for would not (unless the customer provided his own part and all labor warranty was voided)...
Yes I know about those kits. Raby shows it once in a while but that is irrelevant. I`m just having a hard time picturing a Porsche dealer installing an aftermarket part inside and engine where HQ would be ok with.
It was oem parts performed by a Porsche dealership here in CT. I have all receipts. RMS and IMS seals were done at the same time. I bought the car with 78,500 miles, changed the oil right away.
I agree, most likely is IMS.
If if at the track it went low pressure briefly would that contribute? The powder (think brake dust) seems inconsistent with nearly every post out there for IMS issues that show flakes, but I’m not going to chance things.
For it the drain plug, it is not magnetic, but I ran a magnet over the filter and that’s how I collected the small amount of “powder” shown in one of the pictures. It’s not much but it’s undeniably ferrous metal.
Looks like they did not replace the bearing from what you are saying - all they did was a reseal of the IMS. Your car likely still has the original bearing in it as there are no factory IMS bearing replacements currently available.
For a short period, Porsche did offer a ceramic hybrid single row ball bearing replacement but the part disappeared from the PET several years ago. I have two of these kits in my office as proof they did exist at one time, but it's highly unlikely they were fitted by the dealership in our car. If you post a copy of the workorder, it should be easy to tell what exactly they did (or didn't do).
A Porsche dealership changed out the IM$ bearing in your '99 996? Did they extract the old bearing with the engine still installed in the car? I thought Porsche dealerships wouldn't perform this type of replacement work. In the past, P dealers considered the bearing a part that could not be serviced. Has this position, long held by Porsche, changed?
This is why I would not change a double row bearing (I have not and will not touch the bearing in my early 2000 build C2). It seems to me we are hearing more and more reports of replacement bearings failing. If this is indeed your replacement bearing failing, I would bet the original bearing for this car, if still installed, would still be going strong. Good luck diagnosing and fixing this issue.
My January 2000 built Boxster S IMSB was failing in March 2003 when I removed the engine to send the case to LN Enginnering for 3.6L Nickies upgrade. I always changed the oil after 6,000 miles or less
Yes I know about those kits. Raby shows it once in a while but that is irrelevant. I`m just having a hard time picturing a Porsche dealer installing an aftermarket part inside and engine where HQ would be ok with.
That's cos you don't really understand the way dealers operate, let me explain a little bit.
Porsche Dealerships are independently owned Franchise Businesses. You can have a successful used car business, repair shop business, race car shop business, ect. and ADD a Porsche Franchise to your business that will have certain benefits and also certain rules to go with it. The Porsche Franchise doesn't dictate all the rules for your business, only the ones set out by the Franchise agreement. So basically each Porsche Dealership can be quite different in the things they do as a business. If they want to do aftermarket work, they can at their own risk without support from Porsche.
The Porsche Dealership I worked for was owned by Bruton Smith/Sonic Automotive who also owns 100 other Dealerships/Brands and 8 NASCAR Tracks which also has NHRA and IHRA Dragstrips..
That's cos you don't really understand the way dealers operate, let me explain a little bit.
Porsche Dealerships are independently owned Franchise Businesses. You can have a successful used car business, repair shop business, race car shop business, ect. and ADD a Porsche Franchise to your business that will have certain benefits and also certain rules to go with it. The Porsche Franchise doesn't dictate all the rules for your business, only the ones set out by the Franchise agreement. So basically each Porsche Dealership can be quite different in the things they do as a business. If they want to do aftermarket work, they can at their own risk without support from Porsche.
The Porsche Dealership I worked for was owned by Bruton Smith/Sonic Automotive who also owns 100 other Dealerships/Brands and 8 NASCAR Tracks which also has NHRA and IHRA Dragstrips..
Yup. We supply Retrofit kits and Solutions to dealerships both in the USA and Canada all the time. Many were our first customers even before independent shops as they were on the front line seeing these things fail before everyone else.
That's cos you don't really understand the way dealers operate, let me explain a little bit.
Porsche Dealerships are independently owned Franchise Businesses. You can have a successful used car business, repair shop business, race car shop business, ect. and ADD a Porsche Franchise to your business that will have certain benefits and also certain rules to go with it. The Porsche Franchise doesn't dictate all the rules for your business, only the ones set out by the Franchise agreement. So basically each Porsche Dealership can be quite different in the things they do as a business. If they want to do aftermarket work, they can at their own risk without support from Porsche.
The Porsche Dealership I worked for was owned by Bruton Smith/Sonic Automotive who also owns 100 other Dealerships/Brands and 8 NASCAR Tracks which also has NHRA and IHRA Dragstrips..
Yes I know about those kits. Raby shows it once in a while but that is irrelevant. I`m just having a hard time picturing a Porsche dealer installing an aftermarket part inside and engine where HQ would be ok with.
In the early days, one Porsche dealer went so far as sending out a mailer saying that the engine would fail unless they applied an LN IMS Retrofit product to it, having them install it.. They got in hot water pretty quickly.
People often forget what it was like in the days when we had first completed these procedures, kits, and tools. Back then the "hype" was that we could actually remove, and replace a bearing that the factory said wasn't serviceable with the engine assembled.
I remember one customer that bought a beautiful Blue 04 Targa, and in 05 with 4k miles the IMSB failed, I installed a complete factory crate motor in it ($30k), then in 06 the new crate motor IMSB failed at 9K miles, so I installed another new crate motor ($30k).
The customer was like "I sure am glad I haven't had to pay for this, ($60K) but is it going to happen again?" Luckily the last motor had the big 997 bearing in it, but at that time, it wasn't for sure it would prove to be reliable.
I’ve been searching and am finding mixed messages. I had magnetic metallic dust or powder in the filter on my last oil change. 1999, IMS changed at 72k, currently 82k. I drive it hard, including 2 track days at 80k (instructor group) and I have no idea about 0-79k life. Zero flakes, only the dust. Runs smooth as silk. Pics attempting of filter and remnants from the magnet I ran over it.
When I was researching the problem associated with bearing failure, several unfortunate owners posted pictures with a power dusted filter like what you shown. Once they removed the IMS flange and outer seal, this metal powdered substance was also caked around the inside of the bearing and probably circulating all throughout the engine judging what was found in the filter. Most of the engine expects said replacing the bearing and "flushing the system" would not prevent engine failure. That was enough proof for me to have my investment protected. I decided to go with the IMS Solution with a certified installer. Thankfully, my original bearing had not gotten to the stage were it started to shed metal. It was time for me to change out the clutch kit anyway and so I moved forward with the deal. They also replaced the RMS and AOS too. Best decision I made with these cars.
11-22-2020, 08:34 AM
