2019 Engine Rebuild Comparison RND/FSI/EBS/Vertex
05-10-2019, 06:18 PM
#106
While the Porsche dealers wouldn't call me back, I did finally talk to someone about the Porsche short block option. My BMW mechanic recommended an indy Porsche specialist who is a former Porsche dealer tech, and recommended the short block option as the most cost-effective route. I'll add the details to the spreadsheet, but the total cost is about $12k. That includes the new short block, a basic head rebuild (valve job, guides, machining), and a couple of sensible while-you're-in-there's like the AOS.
This is actually a pretty attractive option. Less than a rebuild with steel sleeves, and a little more than a used engine.
This is actually a pretty attractive option. Less than a rebuild with steel sleeves, and a little more than a used engine.
05-11-2019, 08:37 PM
#107
The Flat 6 program is simple.
You send them the car.
They evaluate the current engine.
You choose from the available options.
You send them a check.
They build the engine.
They put it on a engine dyno to begin break in. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They road test it and break it in more. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They ship the car back.
You put a smile on your face and drive like the wind.
Put that in the spreadsheet.
You send them the car.
They evaluate the current engine.
You choose from the available options.
You send them a check.
They build the engine.
They put it on a engine dyno to begin break in. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They road test it and break it in more. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They ship the car back.
You put a smile on your face and drive like the wind.
Put that in the spreadsheet.
The following users liked this post:
schroederhc1 (04-03-2021)
05-11-2019, 09:21 PM
#108
The Flat 6 program is simple.
You send them the car.
They evaluate the current engine.
You choose from the available options.
You send them a check.
They build the engine.
They put it on a engine dyno to begin break in. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They road test it and break it in more. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They ship the car back.
You put a smile on your face and drive like the wind.
Put that in the spreadsheet.
You send them the car.
They evaluate the current engine.
You choose from the available options.
You send them a check.
They build the engine.
They put it on a engine dyno to begin break in. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They road test it and break it in more. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They ship the car back.
You put a smile on your face and drive like the wind.
Put that in the spreadsheet.
05-12-2019, 08:37 AM
#109
Drifting
Yes, it is perfect if you have $20K+ cash you are willing to spend on a car worth less than that to begin with.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
Last edited by cds72911; 05-12-2019 at 12:04 PM.
05-12-2019, 11:15 AM
#110
Rennlist Member
While the Porsche dealers wouldn't call me back, I did finally talk to someone about the Porsche short block option. My BMW mechanic recommended an indy Porsche specialist who is a former Porsche dealer tech, and recommended the short block option as the most cost-effective route. I'll add the details to the spreadsheet, but the total cost is about $12k. That includes the new short block, a basic head rebuild (valve job, guides, machining), and a couple of sensible while-you're-in-there's like the AOS.
This is actually a pretty attractive option. Less than a rebuild with steel sleeves, and a little more than a used engine.
This is actually a pretty attractive option. Less than a rebuild with steel sleeves, and a little more than a used engine.
05-12-2019, 09:09 PM
#111
Yes, it is perfect if you have $20K+ cash you are willing to spend on a car worth less than that to begin with.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
05-12-2019, 10:28 PM
#112
That's why I said it is a perfect option for me...not a perfect option for everybody and I can't really say I love my car. It's just a toy and not an investment for the future. If I have to do this and I do, I want to do it right...once. To me this seems like the right option...for me.
For me, it is a better spend than any other model. It will be unique and fun. Which was why I bought it.
05-13-2019, 10:02 AM
#113
Drifting
It is cool and awesome that you are getting a top of the line engine for your 996. I’m sure it will result in the best of all worlds with a nice, lightweight, analog car with amazing power delivery. That sounds like a great setup. I have to admit, I’m a bit jealous.
Stepping away from how awesome that is for you two, I have to say that it is my impression (and it could be entirely incorrect) that many of the people that come to the 996 forum on Rennnlist to ask about options for a replacement engine for their blown up car aren’t in a hurry to pay more for an engine than they did for the vehicle. Lots of people *seem* to want to know the most economical way to get their car running again, or how to turn their roller into a driver.
I am inclined to have patience for the others that aren’t in a socioeconomic situation where they can afford a LN engine, and are simply trying to find an economical way to stay in a 996.
Stepping away from how awesome that is for you two, I have to say that it is my impression (and it could be entirely incorrect) that many of the people that come to the 996 forum on Rennnlist to ask about options for a replacement engine for their blown up car aren’t in a hurry to pay more for an engine than they did for the vehicle. Lots of people *seem* to want to know the most economical way to get their car running again, or how to turn their roller into a driver.
I am inclined to have patience for the others that aren’t in a socioeconomic situation where they can afford a LN engine, and are simply trying to find an economical way to stay in a 996.
Last edited by cds72911; 05-13-2019 at 10:32 AM.
05-13-2019, 11:00 AM
#114
It is cool and awesome that you are getting a top of the line engine for your 996. I’m sure it will result in the best of all worlds with a nice, lightweight, analog car with amazing power delivery. That sounds like a great setup. I have to admit, I’m a bit jealous.
Stepping away from how awesome that is for you two, I have to say that it is my impression (and it could be entirely incorrect) that many of the people that come to the 996 forum on Rennnlist to ask about options for a replacement engine for their blown up car aren’t in a hurry to pay more for an engine than they did for the vehicle. Lots of people *seem* to want to know the most economical way to get their car running again, or how to turn their roller into a driver.
I am inclined to have patience for the others that aren’t in a socioeconomic situation where they can afford a LN engine, and are simply trying to find an economical way to stay in a 996.
Stepping away from how awesome that is for you two, I have to say that it is my impression (and it could be entirely incorrect) that many of the people that come to the 996 forum on Rennnlist to ask about options for a replacement engine for their blown up car aren’t in a hurry to pay more for an engine than they did for the vehicle. Lots of people *seem* to want to know the most economical way to get their car running again, or how to turn their roller into a driver.
I am inclined to have patience for the others that aren’t in a socioeconomic situation where they can afford a LN engine, and are simply trying to find an economical way to stay in a 996.
05-13-2019, 11:33 AM
#115
Yes, it is perfect if you have $20K+ cash you are willing to spend on a car worth less than that to begin with.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
I’m not saying it is bad, since that’d be what I’d do too, if I loved the car, and was in that financial position when the time came, but it isn’t the answer for every situation.
A perfect example is a roller I bought for a typical roller price - I wasn’t about to spend 3x that or more on a high end LN engine for a car like that. It wasn’t “a keeper” for me, so to spend over 30k on a car I could only sell for half of that didn’t make any sense.
Track car is a different issue though as track is a money pit in the first place and to run it economically, this model probably not a good idea.
05-13-2019, 11:48 AM
#116
Rennlist Member
I think the first question people need to ask themselves is if they are keeping the car or selling. What I mean is that it makes no sense to spend 20k on an engine when you can go out and buy another used 996 for 20k or less. The resell value certainly don't support this. However, if you pay 20k for your car and put 20k into an rebuild that increases your performance to 300 whp and reliability for along time to come? 40k put you in base 997 or high mileage 996 turbo but are you much worse off? I do agree that it make no sense to spend 3x of what you pay for in a car on an engine that you can't resell for half the price. However, if the objective is to keep the car, then 30k to 40k with a 3.8/4.0 996 that has all weak point addressed, does sounds good compare to the same price in a 997 that still have its weak points.
Track car is a different issue though as track is a money pit in the first place and to run it economically, this model probably not a good idea.
Track car is a different issue though as track is a money pit in the first place and to run it economically, this model probably not a good idea.
05-13-2019, 02:03 PM
#117
Drifting
I agree with a lot of what is said above.
I guess one thing that I get stuck on is that a lot of this presumes that someone has $20+ that they are willing to throw into their ~$20k car.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it right and I am the only one here who doesn't have an extra $20k+ that I am willing to throw at my weekend car. That's entirely possible, I guess.
I didn't realize I was hanging out with so many high rollers.
I guess one thing that I get stuck on is that a lot of this presumes that someone has $20+ that they are willing to throw into their ~$20k car.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it right and I am the only one here who doesn't have an extra $20k+ that I am willing to throw at my weekend car. That's entirely possible, I guess.
I didn't realize I was hanging out with so many high rollers.
05-13-2019, 02:11 PM
#118
definitely not a high roller here. That's why I say the first thing people need to decide is if they are keeping the car.
1. if you don't have 20k, the decision is simple, sell the roller.
2. if you do have 20k, do you buy another car? fun car? what can you get for 20k compares to your 996?
3. if you decide to spend 20k on another 996... why not rebuild the engine that address all the weak point and improve performance in the process.
Just a thought process through some kind of decision making process.
1. if you don't have 20k, the decision is simple, sell the roller.
2. if you do have 20k, do you buy another car? fun car? what can you get for 20k compares to your 996?
3. if you decide to spend 20k on another 996... why not rebuild the engine that address all the weak point and improve performance in the process.
Just a thought process through some kind of decision making process.
05-13-2019, 02:12 PM
#119
I agree with a lot of what is said above.
I guess one thing that I get stuck on is that a lot of this presumes that someone has $20+ that they are willing to throw into their ~$20k car.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it right and I am the only one here who doesn't have an extra $20k+ that I am willing to throw at my weekend car. That's entirely possible, I guess.
I didn't realize I was hanging out with so many high rollers.
I guess one thing that I get stuck on is that a lot of this presumes that someone has $20+ that they are willing to throw into their ~$20k car.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it right and I am the only one here who doesn't have an extra $20k+ that I am willing to throw at my weekend car. That's entirely possible, I guess.
I didn't realize I was hanging out with so many high rollers.
05-13-2019, 03:21 PM
#120
I'm with @cds72911 on this. Lot's of people are making this a binary decision where you have to spend $20k+ for a "bulletproof" motor and everything else is assumed to fail and be wasted money. In fact there are a range of options, and while all of them are expensive, I reject this notion that anything less than an FSI build is wasted money. All of the options for rebuilding and replacing an engine will last for some period of time and number of miles. All of them will will eventually fail, given the right (wrong?) circumstances.
In my case, I have with 70k miles on it. It's cosmetically nice, but it has an accident on it's carfax. I'm not planning to keep it forever, but I think I might keep it for a 5 years, which will be about 10-12k miles of driving for me. I'm considering the shortblock route, which will cost around $12k, and while it might not last forever, I feel pretty confident it will last my ownership of the car and well into the next owner's usage. After all, there are plenty of owners with 50,60,100k+ miles on their original engines.
Lots of people on this forum are looking for validation of their of their personal choices, but the thing is, there is no reasonable argument of having these cars at all. Sports cars are frivolous, and it's an inherently emotional choice to buy and fix one. Not to mention, many of us have lost way more than $20k on newer cars due to depreciation alone. Make choices that work for you. Let others make choices that work for them. And remember "Nobody with a good car needs to be justified."
In my case, I have with 70k miles on it. It's cosmetically nice, but it has an accident on it's carfax. I'm not planning to keep it forever, but I think I might keep it for a 5 years, which will be about 10-12k miles of driving for me. I'm considering the shortblock route, which will cost around $12k, and while it might not last forever, I feel pretty confident it will last my ownership of the car and well into the next owner's usage. After all, there are plenty of owners with 50,60,100k+ miles on their original engines.
Lots of people on this forum are looking for validation of their of their personal choices, but the thing is, there is no reasonable argument of having these cars at all. Sports cars are frivolous, and it's an inherently emotional choice to buy and fix one. Not to mention, many of us have lost way more than $20k on newer cars due to depreciation alone. Make choices that work for you. Let others make choices that work for them. And remember "Nobody with a good car needs to be justified."