nickdee62

Yes, we all worry about that awful bearing on back end f our intermediate shafts. Did you ever stop to think about the other end? It's comical. It just rides in an aluminum casting! And drives the oil pump! No bearings or bushings allowed

5CHN3LL

The plain bearing end of the IMS shaft is the "correct" way - the IMSB only exists because Toyota helped Porsche realize that doing things correctly costs more, and any issues resulting from NOT doing things correctly can just be passed along to the consumer.

rockhouse66

I would not call a shaft stuck in a recess in an aluminum casting a "plain bearing" but I guess you could. The references in the past all suggested there was a "proper" bearing on the other end. Thanks for posting. Learn something every day here.

5CHN3LL

The following sounds dickish; even after trying to un-dickish it, it still comes across a solid 20% ***-y. Sorry about that.

I'm not sure what the Rennlist definition of a plain bearing is. As far as the rest of the known universe, a plain bearing involves two bearing surfaces sliding past each other with no ancillary (*****/races/bushings) parts. The non-IMSB end of the IMS is actually a great example of a plain (journal) bearing. As long as there are no *****, cages, bushings, etc...it's a plain bearing. That's not even an opinion - that's the definition of a plain bearing.

*Edit* Even Wikipedia agrees...like that somehow makes it more legit.
A plain bearing (in railroading sometimes called a solid bearing) is the simplest type of bearing, comprising just a bearing surface and no rolling elements.

TonyTwoBags

There used to be a biker bar out my called "The Other End"

5CHN3LL

That damn stroke acting up again?

Sorry, I'll translate: "That [drool] damn stroke kitty kitty?"

Heh.

wildbilly32

Now your talking my kind of language! I assume the reference is to a "side bearing". Might I inquire from what source you secured that info, WIKI?...Wait, never mind I forgot...

wildbilly32

Ok we're talking about journal bearings on the wheel set. Fortunately or unfortunately most freight cars are now roller bearings. Because of numerous catastrophic failures railroads have invested millions and more $$ to install wayside heat, vibration, noise and other expensive detectors to try to catch failing roller bearings before the axel burns off causing all sorts of bad things to happen. If you think a failed IMSB is bad should see what a burned off journal causes on a loaded coal train when it occurs at 45mph! Never mind I still have flashbacks to that unpleasant part of my life...Carry-on. BTW Plain bearings have/had their issues as well. Not the best environment for an oil wetted bearing.

TonyTwoBags

*out my way.

Don't go their

Mike Murphy

I've read that that end has pressure lubrication. Are there not any oil holes on that end? I thought that oil pressure lubrication is required for a plain bearing to work, unless there's some other means to get oil in and out of that location.

Paul Waterloo

"Plain" or "sleeve" bearings are friction type bearings, where "ball" are anti-friction type bearings. A sleeve bearing has no relationship between the number of revolutions and life of the bearing. The bearing could last forever if properly lubricated, it is supported between the two surfaces by a wedge of oil. Or it could fail during start up due to lack of the oil wedge being present, this is why they say the majority of engine wear happens at start up. If it does not live in the area where the oil is to feed it (normally dripped in from the top), then it needs a pressurized source of oil. I know a lot about electric motor bearings, which most are drip lubricated, don't know a lot about how the M96 engine bearings are lubricated, but assume they pretty much all have a pressurized source of oil.

With an anti-friction or ball bearing, life is proportional to the number of revolutions, every time it goes around, it's closer to end of life. However, they are normally sized and selected to last for a long time with proper lubrication. Bearing life is not consistent over a batch of bearings, some fail before others. Just like a light bulb life.

I always wanted to see the other end of the IMSB shaft, I would assume that any axial thrust loads on shaft are absorbed by the intermediate shaft bearing, the side with the sleeve bearing would only have the ability to absorb thrust going towards the front of the engine, and the shoulder is so small it does not appear to be a thrust face.

I also always wonder what is "thrust control" on a roller bearing, as roller bearings basically cannot absorb axial thrust forces. This is what Vertex says in their advertisement. Just never figured out what thrust control was in that case.

This is why you would want to change your IMSB before it fails, people say they are "perfect", but they are not, they are fatigued when they come out, most likely have minor defects that have developed over their lives, but the cage is still in place and the defects are small enough where the bearing still performs as it should.

DBJoe996

I just add a little grease to that bearing while hitting up the front suspension grease fittings. Simple and I sleep well at night.

Chris(MA)

I believe it interfaces to one of the two rotors that pump the oil, there is no seal between them, so it looks like oil get forced through the gap and leaks down into the sump lubing the plain bearing as it goes.

Flat6 Innovations

This isn't "comical". It's common sense.

I noted this 15 years ago, then I invented the IMS Solution. Note the length and diameter of that end of the shaft, then look at the IMS Solution flange.

This is a plain, journal bearing, pressure fed with oil. Just like the Solution.

I have only only seen that end of the IMS fail once, and that was due to debris contamination between the surfaces.

ltusler

If that bearing scares him, we better not tell him about the cams....