Ridin Dirty

Newbie to forum and 993TT owner.

First, I must first fawn up to Kevin; as when I see his posts I breathe a sigh of relief. b/c it is at that time I can usually stop researching and deciphering opinions. Seems like Kevin, you have been through it all. Sincere thanks. I've voyeured a lot of your posts and all have led to fruition.

I also have smoke at start-up if the car is left over 6+ hours. Significant smoke billowed after a muffler shop tried to get a better fit on my Fisters. I know makes no sense. No correlation is obvious there. Thus it was hard to yell at muffler shop w/o any tangible rationale. But I had a perfect getaway vehicle for James Bond 007....It smoked like crazy for 10 full minutes!! Then I replaced the small filter myself and great-it stopped, completely!!! That lasted a couple of weeks/no smoke. Now it's back though???? Not nearly as bad. But still good for a two minute smokescreen.

What would be your course? Or anyone please chime in. I plan to get another filter and install even more loosely, drain the oil of the 0/40 mobil 1 and replace it with the 20/50 motorcycle mobil 1 everyone seems to advocate (filling it to 1/3 of the twisty stick), then observe.

if that fails, buy check valves???

Agreed?

Ridin Dirty

So I've been told to remove the oil return lines at the bottom of the turbo oil reservoirs. Let it sit for a few days and see if any oil drips. If it does.....then I must buy new turbo oil supply lines with check valves for sale for $400. The vendor is telling me to do this.

Chime in if you agree with this please.

And ya know whats interesting for diagnostic purposes? I parked it on some ramps for a couple of days untouched. So rear was up 15-20 degree angle. I started it today. And no smoke. None. So the incline worked. At least I could park it like that until I repair it. But I want to make the right repair. And this could buy me time for diagnosis. At least I'm not carbon diamond cutting the turbo seals whilst I search for a cure.
I'm my incredibly novice most humble opinion if the incline worked then that means the turbos might be okay? The oil is just finding its level when the car is level. Check valves will stop that; I think.

Anyone?

Ridin Dirty

Also, Kevin says that there is some sort of "ball" in the 964 lines that act as a check valve. The 996 have actual real check valves, and apparently we have "loops" or a twist in the turbo oil lines? That was the factory 993 design. I hope I'm not misquoting in my paraphrase.
And just a quick reiteration. This occurred after a muffler shop did some work. Could they have hit the turbo oil lines? And took the "twist or loop" out?
So the turbo lines are to be looped? I could check this of course-but is that right? But I think the supply line is metal tubing on both ends with some rubber hose in between; so I don't think you could unloop it if you tried. Wow, I am "reaching" here aren't I?

Thanks
Joe

Mike J

Hi Joe,

You can edit your posts so you do not have to do multiple posts - its easer it read...

Kevin has a sticky on this, but this is a sticky topic in that there at times smoking does start to happen for now reason. However, usually there are culprits and remedies.

Ideas:
- Make sure the small filter is a Porsche brand filter
- Make sure that filter is not on very tight - hand tight and 1/4 turn or so at the most. Its important in that if overtightened the threaded stud can go too far into the filter
- Oil level at full temperature idling and running is at the most 1/3 up the curvy part of the dipstick. Do not trust your oil gauge until you understand its calibration

Of those three are satisfied and it still has oil, then you should:

- order and install the 996 check valves - kevin and others have kits
- clean out the feed pipes and intercooler of oil residue

Try that for a while, if the oiling continues

- look for replacement scavage lines with the p-trap bend in them. They are hard to find, Andial used to make them, and Kevin is supposed to make them but hasn't for a long time

If it continues after that, then post back and it will get more serious.

I really doubt if the muffler shop did anything, but there are some lines off the turbos that run close. The loop kevin is talking about is the p-trap just above where the oil feed lines attach to the engine. its in the engine compartment so removing the mufflers have nothing to do with them.

Cheers,

Mike

Kevin

Drain the 0W40 oil FIRST.

The 965 Turbo and 930 Turbo have a stainless check ball. The 996TT has a check ball installed in the check valve>>the 993TT has a loop which doesn't work.

You are fighting two issues, oil from the inlet or supply side of the turbocharger and oil migrating from your main oil tank (located right behind your right door)..

You don't need to remove the oil sump tank lines to see the oil migration from the engine case/oil tank. All you need to do is remove the plug below the turbocharger sump tank. If you have more than a few ounces of oil draining out over night you have a issue.

Again, DRAIN the 0W40, did you drain the 0W40 yet? That is playing a role in your start up smoke show!
__________________

Kevin

The engine is not going to heal itself. For those that see this thread in the next year...

1) Verify that the engine oil is NOT 0W40!! Remove it ASAP if it is, or if you don't know.. Mobil VTwin 20W50 is a great oil.

2) Must verify with your own eyes that you have a Porsche Original (NOT OEM) oil filter on the engine. Not a Bosch, Not a Mahle, Not a Fram, or XYZ... It is amazing how many folks are told that there tech installed the Porsche oil filter to find out that they installed Mahle filters..

3) Schedule your car in for a leak down test > NOT a compression test. If you have more than 12% leakdown, you will have oil migration issues! At this time one might remove the heat exchangers to verify the condition of your exhaust port ceramics. Three engines this year have needed one or more cylinder heads ($2,300.00 each) The ceramic is failing/cracking causing turbocharger turbine wheel/bearing damage. Exhaust valve guide wear is also a condition.

4) If you have not installed the inlet check valves, now is the time to do so. I have them in stock.

5) If you have done all of the above, then it is time to remove your turbocharger sump tank drain plugs to meter the oil migration. If you have more than 2 to 4 ounces, you have a issue.. Crankcase oil migration from main engine oil tank is filling up the turbochargers AND sump tank. The engine mounted oil filter is the major culprit. Oil is passing thru the turbine and compressor side sealing rings.

I have a few sets of my stainless "P" trap lines in stock to cure this condition.

6) One must also check to see the condition of your turbochargers, remove the plastic inlet intake pipes to your turbochargers. If oil is present, we need to discuss turbocharger rebuilding options.

NOTE, any of the above statements can cause oil in the intake system. Each step requires that you remove the Intercooler and plastic piping to mop up all the oil. It's takes alot of effort to cure this problem.

Ridin Dirty

Thanks men! I will carry out all- but honestly Kevin's #3 is "spooky". Are you saying that #3 is another potential cause? Then that means there is yet another etiology of oil migration? Meaning if the filter is doing its job it can still leak into the turbos? And even if you have check valves it can still leak?.....or even worse the check valves can mask an underlying #3 issue with the actual engine?

I plan to install Fab supercups on the car-not quite sure i like the fisters. I know I'm going to have a lot of trouble finding a nice sound with the turbo model 993. I just can't get into the snap, crackle, and pop gurgle sounds others find so pleasing....yet. Before I got into Porsche I had Mustangs in my youth and liked their exhaust note...but as i matured I got tired of just going straight-ha!. I'm definitely not a fan of Fab stuff either but I got em inexpensively from a friend. I'll install em myself. Sorry...off on tangent there....So my point is... I'm going to have the mufflers off... might as well install those check valves/hoses at the same time. I suppose I'll buy em from Kevin? Upwards of $400?

I didn't drain the oil yet. I own a restaurant and this time of year (holiday season) is 16hrs/ 7 days. I won't drive it til I replace the oil. But one month ago (when the smoke was billowing for 20 minutes solid!!!) I did check to see if the filter was Porsche branded. It was Porsche brand but what was VERY interesting is that the filter was covered in oil. AND it was on so tight I needed to increase the ratchet lever arm with a wrench to get it off. AND I had to use the "crush" type wrench to get it off. Luckily I have one of those crush-type wrenches too that I use for the canister style oil filter on my Cayenne TT. (meanwhile....I think I heard my still under warranty Cayenne Turbo snicker at me and the 993 during all this-big bully) Anyway I had to DESTROY that filter like a crushed tin can to get it off. But if it was on extra tight-why would it be covered with oil?

Sooooo, I replaced the filter and it took the smoke down from that 20 minutes solid to less than two minutes. (actually it stopped it altogether for about a week). Nonetheless a substantial tangible improvement. I also looked at the filter a week later and its exterior was dry. I must say (@ Mike) I did hand tighten it but likely more than the 3/4 turn after contact you recommend. Soooo, I know, buy another filter and re-torque.

And Kevin thanks..so I don't have to take the scavenge lines off the turbo sumps? I can just use the drain plugs on the sumps huh? Same affect? Okay. That's easy. Note: I have drained oil from those 3x within the last month. (Not for diagnostic purposes but I thought I overfilled it just a lil-so I just wanted to drain a small amount out and I knew those were good for about a half quart combined-the crankcase case plug would have gushed oil so I just drained some from the turbo sumps-and now I'm at 1/3 of the hot twistie-I was 4/5 before). Anyway each turbo definitely spewed about 4oz just like you said. Should I leave the plugs out and see if any more drips out over a couple of days? I think so. Hey, if I do have a problem and the turbos siphon oil -the car could change its own oil over a few days time, no other drain plugs necessary-Ha!



Thanks again all

Joe

Kevin

New, Oil filter is too tight.

Improper oil weight and improper oil level (possible)

You have not removed the inlet piping to the turbochargers to check for oil. The piping and IC needs to be cleaned and then re-inspected a few weeks later.

ronnie993tt

Guess this is the new thread 'eh? Porsche filter+1/3 on dipstick when oil temp at 8+Turbo Kraft feed lines = no smoke ever

UserA

I will just chime in and say that I lived with the horrid Mosquito fogger issue for over 6 months before Kevin stepped in with my indy and remedied my issue with a combo of check valves and his 996 style oil return lines. 18 months later and no smoke at all. Thanks again Kevin.

I truly almost drove the car off of a cliff to save my sanity until Kevin White Knighted me.