MOD500

As a better tale of what a good shop can do for a loyal customer when things go wrong ........ my CEL kept coming on right after my engine work was done back in late 2005, usually through peak torque. Plus an AX22 session showed it to be slower 60 — 130 than a stock car!

This had me very frustrated for quite a while, and properly did my head in ...... Tech 9 in the UK (who rebuilt the engine) prior to shipping it to RS in Germany for mapping, bit the bullet and sorted it FOC. Tech 9 had checked all the original valve springs during the rebuild and found them within tolerance so reinstalled them, only after speaking to RS at length did it transpire that in their extensive experience the springs MUST be changed when doing a rebuild and going for increased outputs.

Guess what, Tech 9 dropped the engine and replaced all the valve springs for free. The problem ceased and all was well, and the acc data was then in line with the quoted outputs.

NineMeister

As stated Toby, it is a prototype that has been designed by a leading race engine consultant using the highest efficiency cores that are available outside of Secan, in fact they are the same cores that are used in Audi's Le Mans winning turbo cars. This is not marketing, this was a genuine request for someone to test a prototype that has been carefully calculated (by said consultant) to match the requirements of the 993TT engine. If it works then great, I'll offer them for sale, if it doesn't work we will either re-design it or move on.

Phelix has now agreed to test the prototype.

derestrictor

Another honourary member of The John Wayne Perambulation Society here: I've been spanked good and proper by the UK tuning fraternity and if I were able to charge with such glib abandon and offer the associated non-existant back up/compo which has been my addiction's penenance, I'd be out of business in my line of work within months if not weeks.

Afaic, unless you are divvying up RS or Ruf wedge (and frankly have the time to fart around on the continent - which I do not,) only Fearnsport has delivered a UK based programmed menu of consistent and reliable solutions and where issues may have arisen, the difference has been Andy's willingness to sort stuff out pronto and certainly less any unreasonable additional costs.

Anyway, I'm glad to be out of that wheezing piece of air cooled sh1te and into a bona fide Inavsion Viggen! *

I can feel the Yorkshire-***-Cheshire axis quivering with terror!

{* I'd like to qualify the above by confirming I couldn't drive out of a rice pudding but I have men standing idle for that sort of thing: the only thing that matters is grunt and well, even more, er, grunt. }

JBL930

Der, i'm assuming "The John Wayne Perambulation Society" is Ninemeister? Or properly spelt Nein Meister! Go easy on the aircooled slagging, you'll get lynched

Felix

Lordy, you're driving a Saab now?!

francisb

herr der! gutten tag.

completely agree. IMO chassis dynos are worthless toys. every turbo car ive had imprezza, audi s4, 993gt2 ran like **** after 'dyno' tuning and andy f sorted on a private road to run like hell. right foot and **** dyno the way forward....

uk trucks

Welcome to the "$hit fight" chaps. My boredom threshold is way too low to sift through the 5 pages but I can tell you a few reasons for some of the points debated:-

1] Not crossing at 5252 rpm is simply because the two axis are not scaled equally i.e the BHP is 70-630 and the torque is 80-720 so they will never cross at correct point.

2] The high torque can quite easily be that the operator got the revs/mph calculation incorrect, thereby squashing the torque upwards on the graph. The ultimate BHP is not affected by this on a DD but the torque can be over or understated. Ask me how I know this ? Remember my 600Lb-ft 996GT2 we got the calc wrong and I admitted it on here, remember. I fessed up as soon as I knew. The car still had enough torque to wreck the clutch in 2 days though ? After the 1100Nm one went in we had no more issues.

3] The AFR's : Porsche Turbo cars can easily run leaner than any other turbo car and survive. So the 0.81 is not an issue. 0.82 is "the ideal" So long as the timing & boost are correct and as you can plainly see it does not have mega boost.

4] Mod 500 can you cast your mind back to the V-Max before last when one of my Simtis ecu flashed 996TT Cabs ran at Bruntingthorpe ? It was fastest Porsche there [Ruf RT12 excepted] it ran 193.4 MPH into the 12MPh headwind for run after run.
It had a programme, an air filter and a Milltek sports exhaust. It had BP102 in it, just like yours but in the morning it ran 192.7 on Shell V-Power !
So I could assume that it had 580Lb-ft + as the ****box weighs 1660kg ! and still had the soft top on--no hardtop.

Oh and for the record I am not a mapper. My business [ex] partner was the person who carried out these tasks.

On OBD2 cars I am able to flash in a map purchased from respect tuners such as Simtis or TTP etc.

Cheers for now

Allan
ex owner Weltmeister Ltd

JamesE

its funny that the torque is always inflated when people make mistakes with this calculation.

TB993tt

Edit: Sarcasm duly noted

It is not solely this calculation, it is also something to do with the way the rapid onset of turbo torque speeds the rollers up on these "non loading" type dynos. Remember the Maha which heavily loads as the turbo torque comes in ? It can very accurately capture real torque but is limited by the grip of the tyres (which seems to be about at the ~740NM level.....

Before enyone starts saying that other lesser loaded chassis dynos can be/are just as accurate I would simply pose the question why do Maha make their's the way it is if it is simple to accurately measure turbo torque without the real opposing load ? Doesn't make sense, Maha would take the easy route like the others if it worked.......

NineMeister

I agree with you on this one. We upgraded the entire control system on our Bosch dyno from the original inertia only set up a new package which can run inertia in combination with fixed or % additional brake load. How you use it depends on the torque of the engine, running in higher gears reduces the transmitted wheel torque but also increases the rolling losses and so heat builds up in the tyre; additional load in a lower gear gets around this problem but will increase the torque to the roller so the tyre is more prone to slip. As with other engineering problems/solutions, there are always compromises somewhere.

JBL930

I honestly cannot believe you are still trying to sell your dyno Colin, your neck must be made from the same material as Toby's cylinder heads.

Seams like word has spread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...p?h=0&t=511298

chris walrod

Would this, by chance, be Marston or maybe NAR cores?

TB993tt

An apt time since I guess there may be a few lurkers interested, if the chassis dyno you are about to use for your Porsche turbo does not include a shroud to blow through your intercooler like this:


And a cooling set up like this: (that thing at the front was blowing directly from outside at ~50mph)


And the dyno run takes shorter than ~20 seconds then it is not going to give you an accurate "Porsche corresponding" power number.....

We measured the car's "vitals" during full load runs and post intercooler the intake air temp was fully controlled by the cooling arrangement at Manthey above - typically a dyno without this level of temperature control will use a "calculated" (or fudged) post intercooler IAT which directly affects the correction factor for the run and up go your power numbers !

Exhibit "a" Gemballa using an IAT of 75DegC to gain a nice 200+hp for the correction factor number
Edit: I do not know if the Gemballa IAT of 75DegC is measured correctly or manually entered but if is it measured then an IAT that high would result in a massive timing and boost pull by the Motronic so the dyno run result would be completely meaningless as a "DIN" result anyway yet they were using this dyno chart to sell engine jobs.....
Edit
I've just checked my Maha Manthey chart and the Ansaugluft temp appeared to be the temp of the air which they were blowing into the intake snorkel mine was 10.5DegC - there is no way that could hit 75DegC - It is a fiddle......

Jean

What is the most disturbing for me is the sort of indifference that I am seeing with Ninemeister. I can see three people coming here on Rennlist showing their indignation at how they have been cheated and then treated and not only no compensation seems to have been offered to them in private , but even after coming public, I still have not seen any interest in compensating them for their losses in whichever way.

God knows how many others are out there.

In the meantime, the guys on the Rennlist N/A boards are still being amazed at the dyno sheets being showed as a result of the wonder 4T heads and Motec tuning and the wonderfully well written GT Porsche and other magazine articles that are nothing more than lame advertising ..

Why are outfits like RUF and RS Tuning so expensive (to name Europeans only)? because the R&D is done at their own expense and not from the customers' pockets. Funny (or rather very sad) thing is that with the money that James spent on his 9M experiment, he could have had 2 Andial 3.8 twin plug engines.

This behaviour is so utterly disappointing Colin. Make it right.

Jean

Allan

I hope not to get you too bored reading this.

The only thing that was not appreciated was the fact that you HAD to be proven wrong after endless debates before you admitted the wrong number, and one can always have doubts, but deep inside, I am convinced that you knew it. In fact even after you admitted the inflated numbers on your dyno, you still were trying to brag about them on another forum.

The past is the past, I hope you have a solid and very succesful business ...at least people talk very positively about your decency, which is in itself a lot more than what is said about many others.

What made your car go 193mph at VMAX was certainly not something like the peak torque numbers we saw on your dyno sheets, but rather a well sorted conservatively tuned engine. And BTW that day the laser readings were all screwed up from what I read, depending on which lane the car was run on.