993GT2EVO dyno report number two
03-25-2008, 05:00 PM
#121
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James, hope your ok matey, get some of your dyno graphs posted, maybe 640bhp to 430bhp might open some eyes. It seams that 497bhp down to around 400bhp on THREE separate independent dynos isn't convincing enough, even with the 497bhp coming up in between EVERY single one of them, you can lead a horse to water....
Come on James, warm the scanner up
Come on James, warm the scanner up
04-01-2008, 04:29 AM
#122
I hope so too, but as has already been suggested, not everybody wishes to do their laundry in public.
Just to be clear I have no personal issue with 9M and I know they have done some great work on your car Christer and many other N/A cars. I think it is a case of them biting off more than they can chew with air-cooled turbos though. Hopefully this thread may make them (or any potential customers) think again.
Just to be clear I have no personal issue with 9M and I know they have done some great work on your car Christer and many other N/A cars. I think it is a case of them biting off more than they can chew with air-cooled turbos though. Hopefully this thread may make them (or any potential customers) think again.
If you feel able, perhaps you guys could keep us abreast of any developments?
04-01-2008, 11:29 AM
#123
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Christer, how do you expect the problems to get sorted out? Take the car back to 9m for them to "Put it right"? When you have spent years having your car in and out of Colin's workshop, and it NEVER being right even though he is charging you for the work, why on earth would you continue to go back?
I spoke to Colin when my second turbo went, he wouldn't fix it for free like he should have done, they did a service on the car when they fitted the turbo and within 3000 miles the turbo failed, we sent it off to THEIR turbo guy and it was inspected and put down to oil starvation, I didn't drain any oil out of the car and it had a service 3000 miles before, who's fault would you say it is?
I don't know about you, but if my BMW was serviced at a garage 3000 miles ago and was fitted with a new part, then that part failed, I would expect them to fix it. I spoke to Colin in person and he would not fix it, the best he would offer after a lot of me stamping my feet was to replace the turbo at cost! Bearing in mind here that i have had nothing but problems with the car over the three(ish) years that they were looking after it, including a turbo going previously which I had to pay for, a fire which wasn't a small thing, it required all new wiring, hoses, sound proofing etc so the thing was properly ON FIRE, repetitive fueling issues, missing HP which cost me money in other dyno time to verify and then going to and from 9m for them to "magically make it reappear", delays and going well over initial quotes etc.
You would have thought with the number of persistent issues and excessive cost to myself he would have been on the case, paying for my travel, maybe even arranging a courtesy car, apologizing for screwing things up so badly and thanking me for my patience, but you would be wrong, in-fact what he wanted to do was deny any responsibility and make me pay for his mistakes whilst trying to blame the issue on his suppliers, all the time telling me that it was high time i dumped the CIS and let him have another £15k or so and fit Motec.
I wouldn't let the man anywhere near my car again Christer, anyone else that does is a mug and will no doubt learn the hard way.
I can only imagine that it's quite hard to make a mess of a normally aspirated engine, I defy anyone reading this to take their 9m tuned turbo to another dyno and it show anywhere near the 9m figures. It would have to be a run that was done before this thread started though, if there is a customer out there with a 9m tuned turbo that has a dyno sheet in their hand and is willing, i will take you to another dyno of your choice (ideally somewhere in the south east but i'll travel if necessary) and pay for the session regardless of whether it shows higher/lower. That is how confident I am, send me a PM, I'll even buy you lunch!
I spoke to Colin when my second turbo went, he wouldn't fix it for free like he should have done, they did a service on the car when they fitted the turbo and within 3000 miles the turbo failed, we sent it off to THEIR turbo guy and it was inspected and put down to oil starvation, I didn't drain any oil out of the car and it had a service 3000 miles before, who's fault would you say it is?
I don't know about you, but if my BMW was serviced at a garage 3000 miles ago and was fitted with a new part, then that part failed, I would expect them to fix it. I spoke to Colin in person and he would not fix it, the best he would offer after a lot of me stamping my feet was to replace the turbo at cost! Bearing in mind here that i have had nothing but problems with the car over the three(ish) years that they were looking after it, including a turbo going previously which I had to pay for, a fire which wasn't a small thing, it required all new wiring, hoses, sound proofing etc so the thing was properly ON FIRE, repetitive fueling issues, missing HP which cost me money in other dyno time to verify and then going to and from 9m for them to "magically make it reappear", delays and going well over initial quotes etc.
You would have thought with the number of persistent issues and excessive cost to myself he would have been on the case, paying for my travel, maybe even arranging a courtesy car, apologizing for screwing things up so badly and thanking me for my patience, but you would be wrong, in-fact what he wanted to do was deny any responsibility and make me pay for his mistakes whilst trying to blame the issue on his suppliers, all the time telling me that it was high time i dumped the CIS and let him have another £15k or so and fit Motec.
I wouldn't let the man anywhere near my car again Christer, anyone else that does is a mug and will no doubt learn the hard way.
I can only imagine that it's quite hard to make a mess of a normally aspirated engine, I defy anyone reading this to take their 9m tuned turbo to another dyno and it show anywhere near the 9m figures. It would have to be a run that was done before this thread started though, if there is a customer out there with a 9m tuned turbo that has a dyno sheet in their hand and is willing, i will take you to another dyno of your choice (ideally somewhere in the south east but i'll travel if necessary) and pay for the session regardless of whether it shows higher/lower. That is how confident I am, send me a PM, I'll even buy you lunch!
I don't understand though why these issues have not been sorted. This is a very bad situation for all parties - and I feel for you guys. As I said before, if it wasn't for the fact that I can't tell much if any difference in straightline speed between my 964 and the GT3 then I would be the first to head down to another dyno, and in fact I may still do that. I did it some years ago and all was well at the initial stages of tuning, but it might be a good idea to get an update.
If you feel able, perhaps you guys could keep us abreast of any developments?
If you feel able, perhaps you guys could keep us abreast of any developments?
04-02-2008, 12:54 PM
#124
Burning Brakes
Funny how Colin has gone quiet again on this thread. I've noticed this behaviour before on threads where he gets shot down by recognised experts on this forum.
No doubt he'll re-appear on another thread offering advice and of course advertising his latest miraculous products...
No doubt he'll re-appear on another thread offering advice and of course advertising his latest miraculous products...
04-02-2008, 04:06 PM
#125
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04-03-2008, 05:08 AM
#127
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One of few threads on RL which could save some trusting punter a lot of time money and b*ll ache - cuts through usual internet BS with a few real life experiences............"pie throwing" I would think more like "in the stocks"
04-03-2008, 05:14 AM
#128
Christer, how do you expect the problems to get sorted out? Take the car back to 9m for them to "Put it right"? When you have spent years having your car in and out of Colin's workshop, and it NEVER being right even though he is charging you for the work, why on earth would you continue to go back?
I spoke to Colin when my second turbo went, he wouldn't fix it for free like he should have done, they did a service on the car when they fitted the turbo and within 3000 miles the turbo failed, we sent it off to THEIR turbo guy and it was inspected and put down to oil starvation, I didn't drain any oil out of the car and it had a service 3000 miles before, who's fault would you say it is?
I don't know about you, but if my BMW was serviced at a garage 3000 miles ago and was fitted with a new part, then that part failed, I would expect them to fix it. I spoke to Colin in person and he would not fix it, the best he would offer after a lot of me stamping my feet was to replace the turbo at cost! Bearing in mind here that i have had nothing but problems with the car over the three(ish) years that they were looking after it, including a turbo going previously which I had to pay for, a fire which wasn't a small thing, it required all new wiring, hoses, sound proofing etc so the thing was properly ON FIRE, repetitive fueling issues, missing HP which cost me money in other dyno time to verify and then going to and from 9m for them to "magically make it reappear", delays and going well over initial quotes etc.
You would have thought with the number of persistent issues and excessive cost to myself he would have been on the case, paying for my travel, maybe even arranging a courtesy car, apologizing for screwing things up so badly and thanking me for my patience, but you would be wrong, in-fact what he wanted to do was deny any responsibility and make me pay for his mistakes whilst trying to blame the issue on his suppliers, all the time telling me that it was high time i dumped the CIS and let him have another £15k or so and fit Motec.
I wouldn't let the man anywhere near my car again Christer, anyone else that does is a mug and will no doubt learn the hard way.
I can only imagine that it's quite hard to make a mess of a normally aspirated engine, I defy anyone reading this to take their 9m tuned turbo to another dyno and it show anywhere near the 9m figures. It would have to be a run that was done before this thread started though, if there is a customer out there with a 9m tuned turbo that has a dyno sheet in their hand and is willing, i will take you to another dyno of your choice (ideally somewhere in the south east but i'll travel if necessary) and pay for the session regardless of whether it shows higher/lower. That is how confident I am, send me a PM, I'll even buy you lunch!
I spoke to Colin when my second turbo went, he wouldn't fix it for free like he should have done, they did a service on the car when they fitted the turbo and within 3000 miles the turbo failed, we sent it off to THEIR turbo guy and it was inspected and put down to oil starvation, I didn't drain any oil out of the car and it had a service 3000 miles before, who's fault would you say it is?
I don't know about you, but if my BMW was serviced at a garage 3000 miles ago and was fitted with a new part, then that part failed, I would expect them to fix it. I spoke to Colin in person and he would not fix it, the best he would offer after a lot of me stamping my feet was to replace the turbo at cost! Bearing in mind here that i have had nothing but problems with the car over the three(ish) years that they were looking after it, including a turbo going previously which I had to pay for, a fire which wasn't a small thing, it required all new wiring, hoses, sound proofing etc so the thing was properly ON FIRE, repetitive fueling issues, missing HP which cost me money in other dyno time to verify and then going to and from 9m for them to "magically make it reappear", delays and going well over initial quotes etc.
You would have thought with the number of persistent issues and excessive cost to myself he would have been on the case, paying for my travel, maybe even arranging a courtesy car, apologizing for screwing things up so badly and thanking me for my patience, but you would be wrong, in-fact what he wanted to do was deny any responsibility and make me pay for his mistakes whilst trying to blame the issue on his suppliers, all the time telling me that it was high time i dumped the CIS and let him have another £15k or so and fit Motec.
I wouldn't let the man anywhere near my car again Christer, anyone else that does is a mug and will no doubt learn the hard way.
I can only imagine that it's quite hard to make a mess of a normally aspirated engine, I defy anyone reading this to take their 9m tuned turbo to another dyno and it show anywhere near the 9m figures. It would have to be a run that was done before this thread started though, if there is a customer out there with a 9m tuned turbo that has a dyno sheet in their hand and is willing, i will take you to another dyno of your choice (ideally somewhere in the south east but i'll travel if necessary) and pay for the session regardless of whether it shows higher/lower. That is how confident I am, send me a PM, I'll even buy you lunch!
Sometimes though you have to reject the car and get the solicitors on the case, because I know very well myself that the tuning of these cars costs a lot of money but that doesn't mean that we are bottomless pits....
If you have a strong case and no responsibility is being taken then I would go 'all in' down the legal route. Hopefully, this will not be necessary.
04-03-2008, 11:47 AM
#129
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I tried to sort it out with Colin, I gave him every opportunity to sort the car out, and in every case bar one I payed for this privilege, he simply couldn't make it run properly, no matter how much money was spent.
When the turbo went for the second time and i refused to pay for it i was basically told "tough ****, i'll need more money".
Without sounding like a moron here, there are many wealthy people on this board with more spare cash than i'll ever earn. But at 34 (almost 35
) i'm not doing too bad, and quite frankly Colin can choke on the money I spent, I really couldn't give a monkeys left ******** about the money, what i want is for other people to be aware that this man is a charlatan, he promises the earth and doesn't deliver, worse still his work is shoddy and he doesn't stand by it.
James has his own reasons for not dragging his **** through the courts, the people who know James and have met him know this, Colin is only too aware of why. James has basically kissed goodbye to the cash too, which is a shame because it was over THREE times what i spent, like i said though he has bigger fish to fry.
There is another ugly angle to all this, when I had my car in there for the first time I stipulated that i wanted all of my standard parts returned. This included
Cams
Turbo
Headers (Euro 87 headers are stainless and sought after in the US)
Intercooler
Rear brake calipers
And any other bits that came off the car to put it back to stock if i ever wanted too.
I got back my aircon compressor and aircon rad etc and rear wiper assembly, nothing else. I'm since told that everything else is in the skip apart from my rear calipers and intercooler which he has dozens of apparently.
Can you honestly see any of the above being thrown in the skip? Didn't think so, same with James' GHL headers, in the skip apparently!
I've recently met a chap that has a RUF BTR, he's been 9m'd too, but his turbo, headers, and airbox etc was sold to another friend of mine, it was only when we got talking that we realized that his stuff had been sold without him even being told, AND when he had specifically asked for them to be kept.
I don't know what kind of policies your companies run but if I acted in this way with my customers i would be lynched, surely selling somebody else's property without them knowing it is tantamount to theft?
When the turbo went for the second time and i refused to pay for it i was basically told "tough ****, i'll need more money".
Without sounding like a moron here, there are many wealthy people on this board with more spare cash than i'll ever earn. But at 34 (almost 35
) i'm not doing too bad, and quite frankly Colin can choke on the money I spent, I really couldn't give a monkeys left ******** about the money, what i want is for other people to be aware that this man is a charlatan, he promises the earth and doesn't deliver, worse still his work is shoddy and he doesn't stand by it.James has his own reasons for not dragging his **** through the courts, the people who know James and have met him know this, Colin is only too aware of why. James has basically kissed goodbye to the cash too, which is a shame because it was over THREE times what i spent, like i said though he has bigger fish to fry.
There is another ugly angle to all this, when I had my car in there for the first time I stipulated that i wanted all of my standard parts returned. This included
Cams
Turbo
Headers (Euro 87 headers are stainless and sought after in the US)
Intercooler
Rear brake calipers
And any other bits that came off the car to put it back to stock if i ever wanted too.
I got back my aircon compressor and aircon rad etc and rear wiper assembly, nothing else. I'm since told that everything else is in the skip apart from my rear calipers and intercooler which he has dozens of apparently.
Can you honestly see any of the above being thrown in the skip? Didn't think so, same with James' GHL headers, in the skip apparently!
I've recently met a chap that has a RUF BTR, he's been 9m'd too, but his turbo, headers, and airbox etc was sold to another friend of mine, it was only when we got talking that we realized that his stuff had been sold without him even being told, AND when he had specifically asked for them to be kept.
I don't know what kind of policies your companies run but if I acted in this way with my customers i would be lynched, surely selling somebody else's property without them knowing it is tantamount to theft?
04-03-2008, 03:01 PM
#130
There are a lot of people dying of starvation every year, but I don't hijack every thread because of it.
04-03-2008, 04:22 PM
#131
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Graeme, do you mind if we continue this thread? I'm really sorry it evolved into this, can you give us your blessing please so Rassel can get off his horse, cheers
04-03-2008, 06:52 PM
#132
04-04-2008, 04:43 AM
#135
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Have you read the thread ? Do you not think this stuff is "important" ?
If you read the thread it is actually very "on" Graeme's original topic. We were discussing his inflated chassis dyno 770NM torque reading and optimistic 490hp on K24s with Jon citing various dyno's credibility (or lack of) and it evolved from there, the discussion about 9M's work all centres around the numbers which his chassis dyno gives....
I suspect you are in a minority of two in wanting this thread to finish
If you read the thread it is actually very "on" Graeme's original topic. We were discussing his inflated chassis dyno 770NM torque reading and optimistic 490hp on K24s with Jon citing various dyno's credibility (or lack of) and it evolved from there, the discussion about 9M's work all centres around the numbers which his chassis dyno gives....
I suspect you are in a minority of two in wanting this thread to finish