Rassel

Another useful comment, really bringing things up a notch are you? If you want to pick fights and insult people - buy a membership and head for the off-topic. I'm sure you can get use of "snappy" comments there. They don't belong here.

Toby,
I've read the thread and already in -05 I was one of the first who wondered about the figures posted, how they where achieved and what where done to get them. The dyno discussion has already been brought up before (I think you know this) but of course ended in a dead end in some thread that originated about something different.

And this is the problem, the discussion about 9M is spread out between several different threads. It's different experiences, answers and conclusions in each one. Now if the newbie above doesn't know how to use search or start real topic about this it will be pop up from thread to thread, probably killing the original discussion and not giving a good picture and the most important no answers, just complaints. There is a reason why the expression "thread hijack" has been created. It's not like it's so hard to start a thread or that there is a limited amount of ones to create. If this guy would have been serious about it, he would start a thread and seriously challenge the dyno and work done by this tuner.

JBL930

Rassel, I am a member, have been since 2006, i've never asked them to change my status so I guess that's why it says "user" in my avatar, have i done something wrong there?
I think referring to me as "This guy" and "The newbie above" is a little childish, you'd think so too if you took a deep breath.
I also think using "people dying of starvation" and "hijack every thread" in the same sentence is a tad bizarre, but maybe it's just me. I've posted before after a bottle too much of Rioja, just thought you might have been doing the same, seams not, would have been a good excuse though.
My apologies if i've offended your sensibilities, I think the thread has gone a little far for being saved now don't you think? Please don't make it worse, Ta

tonytaylor

I agree with Rassel. I think Jon should start his own thread rather than the problem being hidden in unrelated threads.

Jon clearly has a problem with 9M but unless the story is told in a complete fashion it's hard to be objective about it. Christer and I have both had extensive dealings with 9M and don't feel the same way as he does ( maybe there's time yet lol)

TB993tt

Have you read the whole thread ?

You are picking out Jon because he is the most outspoken but if you read it all then a picture of the work 9M have done on a number of "project" turbo cars begins to appear.
Please read from where I highlight in red what Colin has to say from Piston Heads telling everyone how great his tuning is a how much better he is than RS Tuning etc - read it, it is embarrassing, it will really tell you something especially when the owner of one of the cars to which he has applied his magic wand's owner appears a few posts later telling the board how that engine ultimately needed new heads and barrells and pistons !
Then other owners chip in with similar tales - I counted 5 in all which is a lot considering most of us would rather forget gracefully about squandered money (I am sooo guilty of this )

I don't think anyone needs to know the whole details of each person's issues with 9M and there are bound to be two sides so a detailed thread is pointless IMO, but this thread as a whole tells a story for most people - and RLers are interested in this sort of stuff thats why it is near 7000 views....

9M doubtlessly has satisfied customers or he wouldn't still be in business, for tuning N/A cars his stuff looks good but obviously there is that "wonder" dyno and you "satisfied" N/A guys are probably not enjoying having your manhood , I mean dyno power numbers, put into question...........

tonytaylor

I've been an avid reader of this one thanks.
Yes Jon is the most outspoken. In fact he's the only one who's given any real evidence against 9M. James has declined to comment and I accept he he has good reason not to want to get involved. RS Clubsports criticism may be appropiate but it's link to Jon is tenuous. 9M didn't build his engine. The other remarks come from non customers and hearsay which are difficult to interpret as factual. As you say there is a picture of 9M turbo project cars being portrayed. What I, as a 9M customer am interested in is how much of this is fact and how much is coloured by emotion.
I read your and 9Ms bickering at the time. In retrospect it would seem Colin was foolish to reply the way he did. However that still doesn't mean he built RS Clubsports engine. I suspect he has caused a feud between you and him on your part that seems to me to cloud your objectivity.
Money on modified cars is always squandered but it's only a problem if it doesn't make you happy.
Unfortunatly without owners and 9M subjecting themselves to cross examination no one will become any of the wiser and most of these comments are little more than gossip. A detailed thread is the only way to unravel the truth.
Satisfied customers could still have been misled and dissatisfied customers may just be shirking their reponsibilities. Who knows?

My car has been on 9Ms dyno along with others so I'm at least somewhat qualified to comment. As you know the software has been changed since Jons car was on it and there is a "problem" with all chassis dynos and engine dynos. Torque isn't easy to measure with any real degree of accuracy.
My guess is that N/A guys don't consider the dyno numbers as an indication of their manhood. As long as real world improvements are made the numbers mean litte to me although I would say the dyno numbers I've got do seem to correspond to what happens in practice -unless everyone else numbers are wrong as well and if that's the case, what difference does it make?

graeme36s

I have no problem at all with the thread evolving, prey continue. It makes for very interesting reading. A mate of mine came down from Doncaster last night was telling me that 9M quoted £6000 to repaint a 964RS. The chap was told that there was some additional work required whilst the bodywork was progressing. The invoice ended up at £23,000 and settled at £16,000
A couple of piccies to make you smile, well they make me smile anyway

911addict

Graeme, nice, hope to see it in the flesh sometime this summer...

PS: Re. sprayjobs, I was quoted £4K for a partial front respray by Lamborghini (was local to my work) and got the job done well (although obviously not as well as if lambo did it!) at a small garage for £400!!!!

RS Clubsport

Graeme, GT2 looks fantastic!

To put that repaint price with 9M into perspective, I had my GT Silver Carrera GT fully re-sprayed Basalt Black to factory standard by Porsche Cars GB. It was fully guaranteed as the original paintwork was, the finish was flawless and they charged £7500 including collecting and delivering the car!

Autobahn

WOW!!!

BTW, love your car.

tonytaylor

Was it your freinds RS that was painted?

The body shop is run by Marc Clowes and not Colin and as I understand it it's his part of the business.

I've had the offside rear quater of my 964 repaired twice after contact with the armco and both times is was at approx. £2k + vat.I have pictures of before repair which shows the damage wasn't trivial. I've also had doors, hood and rear wing painted by them and in each case the cost was a few hundred pounds. I have the invoices.

Whilst the amounts quoted above are only hearsay even taken at face value without knowing what was said to be needed and what work was carried out it's impossible to determine whether the fee was reasonable or not. To put some perspective on this to strip a 964 to the shell is labour intensive, as is to jig the car to replace structural panels.A 15yr old 964 will almost certainly have some corrosion and many have been poorly repaired previously. Since they were hand made will need more labour to hand finish and paint.

IIRC a GT doesn't need to be stripped to be painted and being computer/machine built all the panels are perfect to start with.

btw basalt black is the colour for GTs

911addict

Have to agree repainting a new car with perfect panels is much easier than an old car with rust!
But probably the crucial thing on all work, is to ensure the communication is there between customer and shop, from an initial comprehensive quote to accurate and timely updates throughout the job...

WOW, this thread has gone WAY off topic...

RS Clubsport

Without wishing to take the thread off topic, all the panels on the CGT are removed to paint them, with the exception of the windscreen surround which is part of the carbon fibre tub:

911/Q45

CGT looks as good naked as clothed! If only most women were the same.

JamesE

I'm so going to buy a cgt it looks the nuts. Come on toby sell me yours...

graeme36s

Some more info. It was a 964RS clubsport owned by a Mr Wittle. It was not an accident damaged car and I believe it was maritime blue. I have no idea who the chap is. Just a frightening escalation in cost.
In my opinion £6000 is ample money for a glass out repaint to the highest of standards to a car that has not been rolled into a ball following an accident. Re corrosion. On the very early 911's expect to pay £6000 for sills and kidney bowls and to cut out and repair all the rot etc. Not something needed on a 964. From memory a friend was quoted £18,000 to carry out a colour change on a McLaren F1 by the factory. To have been quoted £6K and expected to cough up £23,000 is beyond comprehension.
JC's naked CGT does look lovely.