M-Phibian

I know...isn't it great TB? Anyone in the US can smoke a $300k RT-12 with under $20k in bolt-on modifications on their used 996TT. For another $50k...you can positively annihilate one.

Cheers.

N51

"This does not make these cars reliable, and they will break if they are driven this way for too long, whereas an RT12 is likely to last for longer as a result of the engine self protection by pulling and boost when needed." -Jean

Sorting it all out.

MOD500

Great thread

As said, the moot point is long how a given build will last under protracted full throttle, Euro / Stateside tuner alike. I guess it depends if you see your engine as quasi disposable if you turn the wick up significantly without reinforcing / optimising the internals?

Are there any 993 / 996 turbos in the UK that have been massaged by an American tuner? Would be great to get them to v-max and see how they go. Very quick I would assume given some of the data on here

Am going to a v-max day here soon, and hope to get some 0 - 300 kmh data, plus do a Texas mile ..... without sounding silly (difficult I know), is the Texas mile what we know as a standing mile? Only doing one or two though given the hammering the drive-train takes.

Cheers



Martyn.

Stummel

any hp guess for this run?
narrow 997 body

TB993tt

You are a tease, is it a 9ff offering ?

Stummel

yes, it is a Fatthauer car.
he is one of the few in Germany who will build you things like that for sub 200k USD...

amazing that it keeps going above 200mph.

TB993tt

It is great yes
The fact that these motors hold together up to 300kph is something which I didn't think would happen. I have had to change my understanding a little.

From the Tech forum's point of view we should be trying to get detail on the shortcomings of these motors and at what power/torque levels these problems manifest themselves.
As Jean posted, Euro tuners like Gemaballa 9ff and RS Tuning have had the ability to make these very high power (750 Porsche PS/900+bling PS) motors for many years but only a few have been produced.

My only knowledge is gleaned from what RS and 9ff have stated which is all about longevity.

These motors are at and beyond the power levels of race motors so by defintion when they have done the appropriate amount of "race style" mileage then they will need rebuilds -new heads, rings, cylinders, gears etc etc. This is not conjecture.

The problem we have on the "forums" is that the majority of "big dawgs" do not want to share their "problems" for fear of ridicule and/or scuffing of their egos consequently the real cost and reliability of running these engines is never out in the open which is a great shame.....

For the record I am on my third 3rd gear (as well as other gears) in about 20K miles running only 750NM / 550lb/ft and this stuff is expensive

eclou

I think you have to take into account the advantage of water cooling for the newer cars. They simply can handle heat issues with more headroom than an aircooled system. Even the turbos have oil and water cooled channels to help reduce the soak that probably is harder to avoid in the earlier cars. I think part of the reason we are seeing higher capacity cooling is due to the myriad of added systems of the newer cars along with having to meet higher emissions stds - if too hot the cars will emit higher NOx levels which is getting tighter regs every year

Woodster

TB,

I agree with most of what you say. I would not run a 30 minute track session on the
boost levels that I was at and 95 F weather. The car may or may not hold up and eventually
it would be a matter of time. My car performs flawlessly and could easily be driven daily
if I had a occupation which allowed it. I am in very much awe at what Todd Knighton has
been able to accomplish out of his overcrowded shop in the middle of nowhere Arkansas.
He IS NOT a big fan of high boost and until recently pushed by his "younger generation customers"
would never have known some of his works "peak" capabilties. He likes to build them to
breathe and keep boost low. This is all great info that we can talk about and debate as
far as I am concerned and often times ego/personality gets in the way (I certainly have made
an *** out of myself many times).

Thank you all for so much interest in stock internal 996TT performance
as displayed so well by PROTOMOTIVE INC.

I believe the very best performing stock internals car is the GT2 formerly owned by Jamie C
(Ohio GT2) and now owned by Kid GT2. This car outperformed my car on P's dyno by
100 RWHP. It has the water cooled Garrets and a more aggressive program
and larger y-pipe fabricated.

MK

Felix

I can't speak for non-KKK turbos but 996tts don't have watercooled turbos. But I take your point about the watercooled engine and the ability to take heat of the heads quicker.

eclou

Interesting! I wonder why they skipped that in the 996tt. The 997tt has it, as does my old 86 944 turbo.

Does this mean that 996tt turbos are interchangeable with 993tt's?

Woodster

They are not interchangable and that is why when people go to the Ball Bearing Garretts
(Markski, Divexxtreme,JoeTwinT, RobMD99, etc) there is a ton of fab to do. Not only do you
have to create water cooling lines, the oil lines are different and the Garretts do not bolt up
to your headers or your muffler. Big $$$$$ in addtion to the Turbos themselves.

eclou

Another interesting tale to tell (RC from Rennteam):

TB993tt

Cargraphic showed off their new 997GT2 at the Essen show last week. The claimed spec was:
1398kg
680PS/867NM
0-100kph 3.4s
0-200kph 9.9s
0-300kph 22s
360kph (224mph)
The car on the stand was stock apart from front and rear spoilers but supposedly RS Tuning have the engine waiting to be put into this car.
My understanding is this engine is the full house $150K RS engine which owes nothing to the new GT2.
The acceleration numbers are conjecture but I guess probably realistic although the Gt2 will have decent downforce to hamper it....

Jussi

I disagree a little with that "big $$$$$" and ton of fab.
Experience from my Garrett conversion :
- I paid 300 dollars extra to get new Garrett suitable flanges welded for Fabspeed headers.
- Pair of good(+700hp & good low/mid response) flowing GT2871Rs were 2995 dollars(much cheaper than KKK...).
- I got free little adapters for turbo oil inlets.
- for left side turbo I just enlarged original oil tank's flange to fit.
- for right side turbo I had to weld fitting tube from turbo oil outlet to original oil tank. That was one or two hours job.
- what comes to water lines. They are just leaved to open.
- also exhaust flanges had to replace, that was actually the hardest part. Otherwise the standard exhaust fitted.
This kind of conversion is quite easy for a company who has done or makes these. Maybe one day job total.