The real 100-300kph ultimate hp test thread
12-03-2007, 02:38 PM
#136
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Cargraphic showed off their new 997GT2 at the Essen show last week. The claimed spec was:
1398kg
680PS/867NM
0-100kph 3.4s
0-200kph 9.9s
0-300kph 22s
360kph (224mph)
The car on the stand was stock apart from front and rear spoilers but supposedly RS Tuning have the engine waiting to be put into this car.
My understanding is this engine is the full house $150K RS engine which owes nothing to the new GT2.
The acceleration numbers are conjecture but I guess probably realistic although the Gt2 will have decent downforce to hamper it....
1398kg
680PS/867NM
0-100kph 3.4s
0-200kph 9.9s
0-300kph 22s
360kph (224mph)
The car on the stand was stock apart from front and rear spoilers but supposedly RS Tuning have the engine waiting to be put into this car.
My understanding is this engine is the full house $150K RS engine which owes nothing to the new GT2.
The acceleration numbers are conjecture but I guess probably realistic although the Gt2 will have decent downforce to hamper it....
Last edited by Jussi; 12-03-2007 at 03:02 PM.
12-22-2007, 03:55 PM
#137
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I was pondering on the Porsche hp versus "sprint/race houred" hp and decided to calculate the load dished out to my 993tt on our airfield trip last weekend.
The "circuit" takes in full load WOT runs from ~5500rpm to ~7000rpm in the following quantities:
3rd gear (from 74mph upwards) X 3
4th gear X 5
5th gear X 1
6th gear X 1
Now compared to a track day I guess this does not seem that much but when it is broken down into the amount of time the engine is at WOT full load over 5500rpm during the 15 circuits I did it equates to 12 minutes.
Surviving this type and duration of loading is a good measure of Porsche hp IMO and I wonder how 993tt engines at the 650+hp level would survive this sort of duration under max load ?
Below is a screenshot of the Driftbox's view of a "lap" with the "circuit" being in the bottom left hand corner:
The "circuit" takes in full load WOT runs from ~5500rpm to ~7000rpm in the following quantities:
3rd gear (from 74mph upwards) X 3
4th gear X 5
5th gear X 1
6th gear X 1
Now compared to a track day I guess this does not seem that much but when it is broken down into the amount of time the engine is at WOT full load over 5500rpm during the 15 circuits I did it equates to 12 minutes.
Surviving this type and duration of loading is a good measure of Porsche hp IMO and I wonder how 993tt engines at the 650+hp level would survive this sort of duration under max load ?
Below is a screenshot of the Driftbox's view of a "lap" with the "circuit" being in the bottom left hand corner:
12-31-2007, 07:54 AM
#139
I want to share my vid!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
Tip tranny , Modified vtgs , K&N airfilters , custom straight pipes , Proto I/C with 2 passengers and 48F
THIS IS ON 1 BAR AND PUMP GAS!!!!
Next 1.2 bar and MS103 race gas!!
What do u think gents?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
Tip tranny , Modified vtgs , K&N airfilters , custom straight pipes , Proto I/C with 2 passengers and 48F
THIS IS ON 1 BAR AND PUMP GAS!!!!
Next 1.2 bar and MS103 race gas!!
What do u think gents?
12-31-2007, 10:32 AM
#140
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Freak,
Cool vid but it tells us very little.
Have you done a 0-300kph run on a data box (and have someone verify it)?
The car looks fast but that doesnt tell us much unless I missed where you competed
in some event or posted some verified time (driftbox, AX-22, etc). A stopwatch
and viewing the factory speedo is not very accurate.
Cheers, car looks fast.
Marty K
Cool vid but it tells us very little.
Have you done a 0-300kph run on a data box (and have someone verify it)?
The car looks fast but that doesnt tell us much unless I missed where you competed
in some event or posted some verified time (driftbox, AX-22, etc). A stopwatch
and viewing the factory speedo is not very accurate.
Cheers, car looks fast.
Marty K
03-31-2008, 09:50 AM
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My run from the Texas Mile into a 10-15mph headwind. Also, my launch was hurt by the partially wet pavement and with the PSM left on. The long G's are very weak until the end of 1st gear.
03-31-2008, 11:07 AM
#144
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Hey Eclou, many thanks for sharing 
I do not wish to come accross the "nay-sayer" all the time, my interest is to evaluate different tuners wares to see what alternatives are available and what represents good value for money. It is always difficult to start doing this when (mostly US) tuners insist on naming their hp packages after some spurious 9 second chassis dyno run....
I'll start by saying that in my experience of looking at (and obtaining) lots of data for different Porsche tts over the years that your 200-300kph (to negate wheelspin etc) run of ~17.8s represents about 575 Porsche hp....
Obviously that is a slap in the face for any "700hp" nonsense but no one really expected your bolt on to have the same performance as a $100K RS 680hp engine or a similar Ruf RT12 engine did they ?
The head wind you refer to must definately slow you down but by how much is open to debate/conjecture.
For the headwind all I can offer is that the CGT there reported 177mph. I have many runs of a still day with my CGT and can report that 177mph is usually achieved in 0.938 mile (or in easy metric 100m earlier). Bare in mind the CGT because of its high Cd 0.39 will be affected much more than the slippy 997tt Cd 0.29/0.31
Some data I looked at to try and determine your power level
The Ruf 550 997tt tested (driver only) did 200-300kph in 21s versus your 17.8s
RT12 650hp 200-300kph took 15s
997GT2 530PS Cd 0.32 takes 22s
RS Tuning 996GT2 542hp Cd 0.33 took 17.8s
Real 700+hp cars tested:
Gemballa 750hp 996tt with bad aerodynamics: 200-300kph 12.3s
9ff 780hp 997 cab 200-300kph 11.5s
I don't know the cost of the AWE700 kit but for the improvement over the Ruf550 kit it is probably a very cost effective next stage and if as you say drivability is as good as stock with no lights or hiccups it looks a great option......
I am interested in if you were running the race gas for the run and how you feel that affected the performance ?
I do not wish to come accross the "nay-sayer" all the time, my interest is to evaluate different tuners wares to see what alternatives are available and what represents good value for money. It is always difficult to start doing this when (mostly US) tuners insist on naming their hp packages after some spurious 9 second chassis dyno run....
I'll start by saying that in my experience of looking at (and obtaining) lots of data for different Porsche tts over the years that your 200-300kph (to negate wheelspin etc) run of ~17.8s represents about 575 Porsche hp....
Obviously that is a slap in the face for any "700hp" nonsense but no one really expected your bolt on to have the same performance as a $100K RS 680hp engine or a similar Ruf RT12 engine did they ?
The head wind you refer to must definately slow you down but by how much is open to debate/conjecture.
For the headwind all I can offer is that the CGT there reported 177mph. I have many runs of a still day with my CGT and can report that 177mph is usually achieved in 0.938 mile (or in easy metric 100m earlier). Bare in mind the CGT because of its high Cd 0.39 will be affected much more than the slippy 997tt Cd 0.29/0.31
Some data I looked at to try and determine your power level
The Ruf 550 997tt tested (driver only) did 200-300kph in 21s versus your 17.8s
RT12 650hp 200-300kph took 15s
997GT2 530PS Cd 0.32 takes 22s
RS Tuning 996GT2 542hp Cd 0.33 took 17.8s
Real 700+hp cars tested:
Gemballa 750hp 996tt with bad aerodynamics: 200-300kph 12.3s
9ff 780hp 997 cab 200-300kph 11.5s
I don't know the cost of the AWE700 kit but for the improvement over the Ruf550 kit it is probably a very cost effective next stage and if as you say drivability is as good as stock with no lights or hiccups it looks a great option......
I am interested in if you were running the race gas for the run and how you feel that affected the performance ?
03-31-2008, 10:16 PM
#145
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Toby thanks for the thorough analysis. The "real" power levels make sense when taken into consideration. I think that as many have said here dyno hp does not translate 1:1 to road hp, especially under sustained load. I think anyone looking at the packages need to keep that in mind and have reasonable expectations.
I would add though that the wind was gusting strong enough to blow over the 1 mile marker twice during the day, even though it was secured with sand bags and concrete blocks! Also the fastest the 996 based Ruf Rturbo has turned at the Texas Mile is 181.9, and the fastest the RT12 650 AWD has turned was 183.37 as charted here. I think our humidity and temps (~80F) do lend a bit of a disadvantage to runs in cooler temps. I also made some calcs of the aero demands at 185mph with the factors of a Cd 0.31, frontal area 19.8 sqft, vehicle weight 3700lbs for the 997TT:
0 mph wind - 292 hp
10 mph wind - 341 hp
15 mph wind - 367 hp
20 mph wind - 394 hp
I ran about 101-102 octane blend for the run. I was told Garret Lim tuned the program specifically for 103+ octane but I did not have the foresight to run the car empty and fill with either 104 or 109 (my fuel sending unit has been sticking near empty and needs about a 7-8 gallon filling bolus to unstick it - I have been skiing the last week and did not have the time to replace it). I ran with 3/4 tank of fuel as well.
I do think this simple bolt-on kit is worth serious consideration given the relatively modest price and relative ease of installation. The ultimate drivability tests will commence this week as my wife takes it on shopping duties!
I would add though that the wind was gusting strong enough to blow over the 1 mile marker twice during the day, even though it was secured with sand bags and concrete blocks! Also the fastest the 996 based Ruf Rturbo has turned at the Texas Mile is 181.9, and the fastest the RT12 650 AWD has turned was 183.37 as charted here. I think our humidity and temps (~80F) do lend a bit of a disadvantage to runs in cooler temps. I also made some calcs of the aero demands at 185mph with the factors of a Cd 0.31, frontal area 19.8 sqft, vehicle weight 3700lbs for the 997TT:
0 mph wind - 292 hp
10 mph wind - 341 hp
15 mph wind - 367 hp
20 mph wind - 394 hp
I ran about 101-102 octane blend for the run. I was told Garret Lim tuned the program specifically for 103+ octane but I did not have the foresight to run the car empty and fill with either 104 or 109 (my fuel sending unit has been sticking near empty and needs about a 7-8 gallon filling bolus to unstick it - I have been skiing the last week and did not have the time to replace it). I ran with 3/4 tank of fuel as well.
I do think this simple bolt-on kit is worth serious consideration given the relatively modest price and relative ease of installation. The ultimate drivability tests will commence this week as my wife takes it on shopping duties!
Last edited by eclou; 03-31-2008 at 10:32 PM.
04-01-2008, 04:30 AM
#146
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I get those same numbers if I use 9.5% for transmission loss, I think that transmission loss is bit more for AWD.. maybe 17%,
so that would make
00 mph = 317 hp
10 mph = 371 hp
15 mph = 400 hp
20 mph = 431 hp
or do you have 2WD?
04-01-2008, 04:52 AM
#147
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Lots of variables to take into account for theTX mile compared to Euro road tests inc ambient temp, humidity, headwind, race gas, slow RT12s (same trap speed as the 996 Nardo according to that XLS sheet 
)
The biggest unkown for me is the aerodyanamics of the 997tt, it is quoted as Cd0.31 now days but when introduced Porsche quoted Cd 0.29 (and I am pretty sure Sport Auto wind tunnel tested it at 0.29)
This makes a massive difference once over 200kph - I guess I should hold back on "real hp" predictitions until we have some more v high speed tuned 997tt data.
200-300kph in ~17.8s is truly impressive for now
)The biggest unkown for me is the aerodyanamics of the 997tt, it is quoted as Cd0.31 now days but when introduced Porsche quoted Cd 0.29 (and I am pretty sure Sport Auto wind tunnel tested it at 0.29)
This makes a massive difference once over 200kph - I guess I should hold back on "real hp" predictitions until we have some more v high speed tuned 997tt data.
200-300kph in ~17.8s is truly impressive for now
04-01-2008, 05:00 AM
#148
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Great video Eclou, bet the car felt very stable at those speeds, worlds away from the runaway train feel of the 993!
By chance was reading the April issue of GT Purely Porsche last night and noticed the Cargraphic advert on the inside front cover for their full range of 997tt kits, these kits are designed and developed by RS Tuning.
The following numbers are in order of 0 - 100 km/h, 0 - 200 km/h, 0 - 300 km/h copied from the magazine:
Kit 1: 507 PS / 651 NM - 3.5, 11.1, 24.6 secs
Kit 2: 544 PS / 798 NM - 3.3, 10.4, 23.6 secs
Kit 3: 598 PS / 811 NM - 3.3, 10.1, 23.1 secs
Kit 4: 624 PS / 826 NM - 3.2, 10.0, 23.0 secs
Kit 5: 645 PS / 850 NM - 3.1, 9.9, 22.6 secs
Kit 6: 680 PS / 867NM - 3.1, 9.8, 22.0 secs
It is stated below the numbers in the advert - All data measured with 305/30R19 rear tyre size; car weighing 1630kg with full fuel tank plus driver and passenger.
The times seem very quick, too quick in fact ... what do you people reckon?
The full specs on the various kits can be found here:
http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?...987,2988,3103/
By chance was reading the April issue of GT Purely Porsche last night and noticed the Cargraphic advert on the inside front cover for their full range of 997tt kits, these kits are designed and developed by RS Tuning.
The following numbers are in order of 0 - 100 km/h, 0 - 200 km/h, 0 - 300 km/h copied from the magazine:
Kit 1: 507 PS / 651 NM - 3.5, 11.1, 24.6 secs
Kit 2: 544 PS / 798 NM - 3.3, 10.4, 23.6 secs
Kit 3: 598 PS / 811 NM - 3.3, 10.1, 23.1 secs
Kit 4: 624 PS / 826 NM - 3.2, 10.0, 23.0 secs
Kit 5: 645 PS / 850 NM - 3.1, 9.9, 22.6 secs
Kit 6: 680 PS / 867NM - 3.1, 9.8, 22.0 secs
It is stated below the numbers in the advert - All data measured with 305/30R19 rear tyre size; car weighing 1630kg with full fuel tank plus driver and passenger.
The times seem very quick, too quick in fact ... what do you people reckon?
The full specs on the various kits can be found here:
http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?...987,2988,3103/
04-01-2008, 05:42 AM
#149
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There is no way an exhaust only (507 kit) takes 15s off the 0-300kph time (stock 480hp = 40s) They are calculating/guessing these numbers and their accuracy doesn't look so promising based on the 507 kit 
.
The 544 kit should be about the same time as Ruf's 550 ie ~32s - maybe they meant a "3" not a "2" on the first two kits since the 598 onwards look possible.....
.The 544 kit should be about the same time as Ruf's 550 ie ~32s - maybe they meant a "3" not a "2" on the first two kits since the 598 onwards look possible.....