The real 100-300kph ultimate hp test thread
03-06-2007, 11:11 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by Red rooster
Jean,
Sorry , life a bit busy at the moment ! I must find a quite evening and warm up the calculator !
Geoff
Sorry , life a bit busy at the moment ! I must find a quite evening and warm up the calculator !
Geoff
03-06-2007, 05:34 PM
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Jean,
Yes, sorry for delayed reply.
Your calcs show a reduction from 27.9secs to 24.8secs when going from GT2 to TT shell, which equates to a time reduction of 11.1% of time taken.
The RS Tuning figures show a reduction from 17.8secs to 12.8secs for the same bodyswitch this shows a reduction in time of 28%. (I have ignored the 5% extra claimed power from 542bhp to 569bhp which is an extra 4.74% power, which makes only about 2% difference in time).
Given this it is 100% clear that the 12.8 sec figure cannot be reconciled with a 569bhp car, so either the time or the power figure is incorrect.
Guy
Yes, sorry for delayed reply.
Your calcs show a reduction from 27.9secs to 24.8secs when going from GT2 to TT shell, which equates to a time reduction of 11.1% of time taken.
The RS Tuning figures show a reduction from 17.8secs to 12.8secs for the same bodyswitch this shows a reduction in time of 28%. (I have ignored the 5% extra claimed power from 542bhp to 569bhp which is an extra 4.74% power, which makes only about 2% difference in time).
Given this it is 100% clear that the 12.8 sec figure cannot be reconciled with a 569bhp car, so either the time or the power figure is incorrect.
Guy
03-06-2007, 11:09 PM
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Guy
I agree, the RS Tuning TT car seems fast for its claimed HP. It could be a number of things really, including sandbagging HP numbers, God knows..
From a purely "numbers crunching" aspect, I would be careful in going strictly with percentages to compare high speed runs between two cars, it works much better up to speeds where aerodynamics stay in check. (aka 200kph)
Markski, if you still have all the Techart downforce bodywork, you might want to get rid of the large wing and fit a stock one.
I agree, the RS Tuning TT car seems fast for its claimed HP. It could be a number of things really, including sandbagging HP numbers, God knows..
From a purely "numbers crunching" aspect, I would be careful in going strictly with percentages to compare high speed runs between two cars, it works much better up to speeds where aerodynamics stay in check. (aka 200kph)
Markski, if you still have all the Techart downforce bodywork, you might want to get rid of the large wing and fit a stock one.
03-06-2007, 11:20 PM
#65
Jean, I dont have the Techart rear wing... its Gemballa... but I know what u mean. I can increase my mph by switching wings... I actually disconnected it so it does not go up.
mark
mark
03-07-2007, 04:35 AM
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This thread is really getting interesting 
Noah, well said, despite disagreements it should always remain good natured on here. Use of an online thesaurus might be pertinent in some quarters, given the lack of variation on the word '****'
Leon, I recall you hit 198 on one of your early (running solo) runs? As TB says above, you hit 195 on the filmed run with TB (he at 193). Given the significant early lead you pulled it is interesting that there was only 2 mph difference in laser speed? At the next v-max (if there is one
) would be very interesting to plug a Hammer into the OBD port of the 993TT's there and watch the intake temps during a run to see how the various intercoolers behave under sustained full throttle.
Also, just to clarify, we must not forget your car is lighter, more aerodynamic, and has (via your wheel / tyre size?) the capability to hit a higher top speed than TB's car (likewise for mine). Like Jean said, I can also confirm TB's car was hampered by a disconnected sensor that day. Having had the pleasure of driving said beast in full health I can confirm it is frankly farcical, and makes mine feel quite pedestrian.
If there is a next v-max, the results of a re-run would be v interesting to see I am sure you would agree 
The presence of the RT12 would make it even more trouser tightening 
I hear a certain stock looking black TT that frequents v-max is undergoing 'treatment' also, when will it stop?!
Kind Regards
Martyn.
Noah, well said, despite disagreements it should always remain good natured on here. Use of an online thesaurus might be pertinent in some quarters, given the lack of variation on the word '****'
Leon, I recall you hit 198 on one of your early (running solo) runs? As TB says above, you hit 195 on the filmed run with TB (he at 193). Given the significant early lead you pulled it is interesting that there was only 2 mph difference in laser speed? At the next v-max (if there is one
) would be very interesting to plug a Hammer into the OBD port of the 993TT's there and watch the intake temps during a run to see how the various intercoolers behave under sustained full throttle.Also, just to clarify, we must not forget your car is lighter, more aerodynamic, and has (via your wheel / tyre size?) the capability to hit a higher top speed than TB's car (likewise for mine). Like Jean said, I can also confirm TB's car was hampered by a disconnected sensor that day. Having had the pleasure of driving said beast in full health I can confirm it is frankly farcical, and makes mine feel quite pedestrian.
If there is a next v-max, the results of a re-run would be v interesting to see
I am sure you would agree The presence of the RT12 would make it even more trouser tightening I hear a certain stock looking black TT that frequents v-max is undergoing 'treatment' also, when will it stop?!
Kind Regards
Martyn.
03-07-2007, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MOD500
This thread is really getting interesting
Noah, well said, despite disagreements it should always remain good natured on here. Use of an online thesaurus might be pertinent in some quarters, given the lack of variation on the word '****'
Leon, I recall you hit 198 on one of your early (running solo) runs? As TB says above, you hit 195 on the filmed run with TB (he at 193). Given the significant early lead you pulled it is interesting that there was only 2 mph difference in laser speed? At the next v-max (if there is one ) would be very interesting to plug a Hammer into the OBD port of the 993TT's there and watch the intake temps during a run to see how the various intercoolers behave under sustained full throttle.
Also, just to clarify, we must not forget your car is lighter, more aerodynamic, and has (via your wheel / tyre size?) the capability to hit a higher top speed than TB's car (likewise for mine). Like Jean said, I can also confirm TB's car was hampered by a disconnected sensor that day. Having had the pleasure of driving said beast in full health I can confirm it is frankly farcical, and makes mine feel quite pedestrian.
If there is a next v-max, the results of a re-run would be v interesting to see I am sure you would agree The presence of the RT12 would make it even more trouser tightening
I hear a certain stock looking black TT that frequents v-max is undergoing 'treatment' also, when will it stop?!
Kind Regards
Martyn.
Noah, well said, despite disagreements it should always remain good natured on here. Use of an online thesaurus might be pertinent in some quarters, given the lack of variation on the word '****'
Leon, I recall you hit 198 on one of your early (running solo) runs? As TB says above, you hit 195 on the filmed run with TB (he at 193). Given the significant early lead you pulled it is interesting that there was only 2 mph difference in laser speed? At the next v-max (if there is one
) would be very interesting to plug a Hammer into the OBD port of the 993TT's there and watch the intake temps during a run to see how the various intercoolers behave under sustained full throttle.Also, just to clarify, we must not forget your car is lighter, more aerodynamic, and has (via your wheel / tyre size?) the capability to hit a higher top speed than TB's car (likewise for mine). Like Jean said, I can also confirm TB's car was hampered by a disconnected sensor that day. Having had the pleasure of driving said beast in full health I can confirm it is frankly farcical, and makes mine feel quite pedestrian.
If there is a next v-max, the results of a re-run would be v interesting to see
I am sure you would agree The presence of the RT12 would make it even more trouser tightening I hear a certain stock looking black TT that frequents v-max is undergoing 'treatment' also, when will it stop?!
Kind Regards
Martyn.
03-07-2007, 05:32 AM
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Here's one guaranteed to raise the hackles 
Autobahn 20DegC 1470kg 2WD
Sport Auto road test
Ruf RT12 650hp 4WD
0 - 100 km/h 3,4 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h - s
0 - 160 km/h 6,7 s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,8 s
0 - 250 km/h 15,4 s
0 - 300 km/h 24,8 s
Just to keep the above on the heat soak topic (for those who enjoy the
), the run above was the last in this series (below) of WOT, brake, WOT on a deserted autobahn in 20DEgC
Autobahn 20DegC 1470kg 2WD
Sport Auto road test
Ruf RT12 650hp 4WD
0 - 100 km/h 3,4 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h - s
0 - 160 km/h 6,7 s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,8 s
0 - 250 km/h 15,4 s
0 - 300 km/h 24,8 s
Just to keep the above on the heat soak topic (for those who enjoy the
), the run above was the last in this series (below) of WOT, brake, WOT on a deserted autobahn in 20DEgC
03-07-2007, 06:35 AM
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TB
So that's spot on the same as the Rt12, 12 seconds from 100-250kph? Hmm.. seems that my calculations are not that much off are they?
The ultimate test will be on the track side by side, but I can feel comfortable enough with my estimates at least.
It is quite a bit of HP and aerodynamic difference between both cars (993TT disadvantaged on both), truly strong numbers.
To be fair, this is a 4WD RT12, so the 2WD will be a bit faster I am sure.
So that's spot on the same as the Rt12, 12 seconds from 100-250kph? Hmm.. seems that my calculations are not that much off are they?
The ultimate test will be on the track side by side, but I can feel comfortable enough with my estimates at least.
It is quite a bit of HP and aerodynamic difference between both cars (993TT disadvantaged on both), truly strong numbers.
To be fair, this is a 4WD RT12, so the 2WD will be a bit faster I am sure.
03-07-2007, 02:26 PM
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I thought I would post a few pages of the RS GT2 test with 542PS from Sport Auto. Sorry if the copy is not very clear and is in German, I tried to zoom into the data sheet but it might not be clear enough. My friend and "Everything Porsche" source was not able to find the 996TT test unfortunately but was kind enough to send me this. Thanks if you are reading!
542PS at 7020RPM 1.15 Bar max.
755NM@4230RPM
Stock gears
Stock tire sizes with Yoko Advan 048 (JJayB )
1420 Kgs, about 3150lbs if I am not mistaken
Temp 7deg C.
Top Speed 205mph.
542PS at 7020RPM 1.15 Bar max.
755NM@4230RPM
Stock gears
Stock tire sizes with Yoko Advan 048 (JJayB
)1420 Kgs, about 3150lbs if I am not mistaken
Temp 7deg C.
Top Speed 205mph.
Last edited by Jean; 03-07-2007 at 03:16 PM.
03-08-2007, 05:38 PM
#71
Guys,
Firstly, fantastic thread- a bit of controversy, a bit of arguing...but at the end of the day its all quite a lot of fun
Jean,
I am very interested in working out the aero efficiency of the yellowbird. In my opinion i think that, certainly from the seat of my pants feeling, is that its not as good as modern cars. I never forget one vmax racing Guy with his 590 GT2 and although being ahead of him to 200kmh or so, he started catching me:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vdwQsAIm-Z8
I still think its an amazingly aerodynamic little beastie from a bygone era, but the windscreen angle is pretty steep (same as the 993?) But really still a very stable little beast. On sunday i managed to vmax it 3 times (redlined in 6th,) so i guess it was in the 340kmh ballpark, and it felt planted and happy- only needed one lane too
Heres a crummy video from my phone of one of the runs (this one was actually on medium boost though 1.0bar)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Af-JN4H_sZ4
very best
adam
Firstly, fantastic thread- a bit of controversy, a bit of arguing...but at the end of the day its all quite a lot of fun
Jean,
I am very interested in working out the aero efficiency of the yellowbird. In my opinion i think that, certainly from the seat of my pants feeling, is that its not as good as modern cars. I never forget one vmax racing Guy with his 590 GT2 and although being ahead of him to 200kmh or so, he started catching me:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vdwQsAIm-Z8
I still think its an amazingly aerodynamic little beastie from a bygone era, but the windscreen angle is pretty steep (same as the 993?) But really still a very stable little beast. On sunday i managed to vmax it 3 times (redlined in 6th,) so i guess it was in the 340kmh ballpark, and it felt planted and happy- only needed one lane too
Heres a crummy video from my phone of one of the runs (this one was actually on medium boost though 1.0bar)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Af-JN4H_sZ4
very best
adam
03-08-2007, 10:55 PM
#72
some preliminary numbers on my 100 to 200 km....
I have some new numbers for you guys... more to come next week....
100km to 200 km 4.12 seconds and 60 to 130 mph 5.15 sec. it was approved by KPG.
100km to 200 km 4.12 seconds and 60 to 130 mph 5.15 sec. it was approved by KPG.
03-09-2007, 01:31 AM
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Adam,
Good to have you amidst a controversial performance thread
I have seen those runs many times before, what a fantastic little car, little because its frontal area is so narrow...which in fact is what gives it this amazing CD coefficient. I don't have the CD numbers for the Yellowbird itself, but for the similar NB cars of the era per Porsche numbers.
The YB should be similar, since the advantage of being lower, and sleeckier (those rain gutters, mirrors and front bumper) is offset by the rear wing needed for downforce at those silly speeds. Guy's pull on you at higher speeds was most likely due to his bigger HP and less heat soak, where your weight and gear changes (5 vs 6) advantage at lower speeds is no more as important, and your aircooled puffy puffy engine is heating up.
Markski, I think you offcicially broke the record for a 100-200kph Porsche (and any other) street legal car, I think you left the Veyron dead?. I have not seen any faster runs out there with legitimate one shift or 60-130mph with 2 shifts. Congrats to you and Protomotive for building this monster. Now for the 100-300kph record to put the check mark on heat soak, just make sure you remove that Gemballa wall in your back. Congrats.!
Good to have you amidst a controversial performance thread
I have seen those runs many times before, what a fantastic little car, little because its frontal area is so narrow...which in fact is what gives it this amazing CD coefficient. I don't have the CD numbers for the Yellowbird itself, but for the similar NB cars of the era per Porsche numbers.
The YB should be similar, since the advantage of being lower, and sleeckier (those rain gutters, mirrors and front bumper) is offset by the rear wing needed for downforce at those silly speeds. Guy's pull on you at higher speeds was most likely due to his bigger HP and less heat soak, where your weight and gear changes (5 vs 6) advantage at lower speeds is no more as important, and your aircooled puffy puffy engine is heating up.
Markski, I think you offcicially broke the record for a 100-200kph Porsche (and any other) street legal car, I think you left the Veyron dead?. I have not seen any faster runs out there with legitimate one shift or 60-130mph with 2 shifts. Congrats to you and Protomotive for building this monster. Now for the 100-300kph record to put the check mark on heat soak, just make sure you remove that Gemballa wall in your back. Congrats.!
03-09-2007, 06:02 AM
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100-300kph will be the "biggie" for Markski's projectile. Will it carry on like the Veyron and do the 200-300kph portion in ~9.5s or will the heat sap away the power ?
I seem to recall a Protomotive air cooled tt winning a standing mile competition with a 19Xmph terminal speed, so its looking hopeful
I seem to recall a Protomotive air cooled tt winning a standing mile competition with a 19Xmph terminal speed, so its looking hopeful
03-09-2007, 06:11 AM
#75
Awesome runs mark,
So am i right in becoming very excited at the prospect of seeing the 100km-300kmh sometime next week?
Jean,
Thanks for the kind words and your thought on the YB
best,
adam
So am i right in becoming very excited at the prospect of seeing the 100km-300kmh sometime next week?
Jean,
Thanks for the kind words and your thought on the YB
best,
adam