Crownvic

Thanks to all for your greetings.

While I am new here, my earliest Porsche memories were as rallye copilot to my mother in our then new 356 in the Vermont hills. It was the 125,000th Porsche built, dark grey with green leather as special-ordered by a German collector who passed on prior to taking delivery.

You must be wondering why I am posting in the TT forum with such snail slow memories by your standards, but what I hope to regain is its atmosphere along with updated sensations. It hugged the road in curves and floated into the air at the top of hills.

I thought I'd finally get over it by buying a new convertible mustang GT last summer. But even after custom tuning it I'm yearning for a Porsche.

I am hoping one of you can steer me toward the right car, so that I won't need to trade or resell later. I've driven some twenty years in Europe, often on the edge, so I can't really go the vintage route.

Would a 993 TT be as nimble for roadracing on winding hills as a narrow chassis C2? Endless curves have me prefering a less tailhappy C4 or a TT, but I heard that the 993s have far less tricky tail ends. Does the C4/TT wider rear make it oversteer or feel less light to fling into curves?

I find the 300hp of the Stang enough for twisty narrow roads, but must reconnect with the Porsche nimbleness I was weened on as a youngster. If it must be either a C4 or a TT, might as well go all the way.

Lastly, should I steer away from 993 cabriolets, and if ok, is the C4 more stable? I assume few if any TTs were sold as cabriolets due to the lesser rigidity...

Thanks in advance for your instructive advice.

Best,

Vic

ca993twin

Vic,

I'm afraid that you are really going to have to test drive a few of these cars yourself to get a measure of them. Its really not such a nasty task. I believe consensus is that the C2 (or C2S) will be more nimble that the AWD cars, but the AWD cars have other advantages. The cabs actually have pretty stiff chassis, but obviously not quite as stiff or as aero as the coupe. There were a small handful of 993TT cabs built by the factory, but they are very, very rare. There is one for sale now on eBay in Europe, I believe.

All that said... I wouldn't trade a 993TT for anything (OK, perhaps a Ferrari)

Crownvic

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the hint - the C2 might be a better fit for side roads? While I have no qualms about test driving an entire stable, I feel that it is important to respect a seller and not actively shop until I've already narrowed down the choice insofar as possible. * Especially if they are Rennlist members. *

I thought that the 993 TT was the ultimate Porsche, but I guess not for a country boy. It is thus a better highway pounder than a road racer?

Thanks to all for your comments.

Vic

ca993twin

Vic,

No... I never said that a 993TT wasn't competant as a back-roads and road race car... It has AWD which offers some serious advantages over 2WD... under some conditions. The C2 is lighter and thus a bit more nimble. The 993TT flat hauls *** everywhere.

Crownvic

Thanks Steve, you reassure me. I know it is a bit heavier but it does have plenty of extra go. I assumed that the TT had been factory tweaked to be sharp as a knife under any conditions, so your statement about the C2s superior nimbleness had me puzzled. I guess that my question was poorly formulated, as nimbleness isn't exactly a measurable objective performance parameter.

So if I get the gist, the TT is hairy and brawny but will stay glued to the road no matter what you throw at it, while the C2 will feel sleeker as in needing to calculate its trajectory perfectly in order to get through in one piece?

The C2 would be hard to drive well, rewarding you once you know its quirks, while the TT would be hard to drive, period, due to its power and control pushing the limits?

Vic

fc-racer

I used to live in Vancouver where we have one of the best driving roads in the world, the Sea to Sky highway. This road, especially past Squamish has some of the most incredible corners, on camber, off camber, smooth pavement, slightly broken pavement and little room for error. It is a true driver's road. I've driven it in my 944 Turbo S, 964 Turbo, Kawi ZX6-R, Ducati 748 and the 993 Turbo.

I would say that the scariest by far was the 964 Turbo. I truly had white knuckles at the top and I really didn't want to ever repeat it at that pace again in my life. The ZX6-R was next scariest, just because it's a bike and offers no protection. The 944 Turbo S was a joy, but it was so stable that it was also somewhat boring at times.

The leaves the Ducati 748 and the 993 Turbo. With the Ducati, the noise of the v-twin bouncing off the mountain side at 10,000+rpm is just glorious and the stability of that bike provides a really great turn of speed through the corners. The 993 Turbo, is astounding on this road, it almost never skips a beat, but at the same time, it almost gives the same level of accomplishment I felt when I took the 964 Turbo up; the only difference being the 993 Turbo did it about 20% faster!

For twisty roads, you want handling and you want torque to pull you out of the corners. The C2 probably has better handling feel, but the way the 993 Turbo puts power down out of the corners and the torque of the twin turbos is just awesome. There is no better feeling than to lay on the throttle exiting a corner at 4,000rpm and feeling all 400ftlb of torque pushing the car out and forward, it's just awesome!

Jim Morton

I second FC-Racer's comment:

"There is no better feeling than to lay on the throttle exiting a corner at 4,000rpm and feeling all 400ftlb of torque pushing the car out and forward, it's just awesome!"

FWIW, I have backroads driven and rallied a BMW E30 M3, BMW E34 M5, '72 911 "S", '86 951, '95 993 C2 and my current '96 993TT.

Of the cars, the '72 "S" was the most viceral. The "S" engine wound up is pure musical magic. Working the high rev, narrow power band "S" engine is a whole lot of fun. However, I would say that if you are willing to explore your car when driven hard, the 993TT is simply amazing to drive in a rally like fashion. It does most everything quite well !

The capability of the 993TT is simply unmatched...IMHO ! There may be other "supercars", but the TT can be driven hard and also driven home when done. It also carries many of the classic sports car traits that so many newer performance cars left behind. It's a great blend of new and old.

If someone is looking for just a track car, my nod might go to the 993 C2 of the newer 911 Porsches. I also liked my 951 as a track mule. The 951 was nicely balanced and quite capable with a few minor mods to the powerplant.

$0.02

soltino

20% Faster <?>

1:40 vs 1:20 is really fast!


tino

Rassel

STOP!

Now that's an introduction that would break the heart of plenty 356 collectors and it will also make many applaude. I'm one of the "Porsches where ment to be used, not collected". You must have had a heck of an experience there! I can not really blame mine for not taking me on such adventourus trips, but I think you had a one of a kind experience. Perhaps you have an old photo or two you could share with us? I almost only see 356 pictures, as collection items

Cheers


P.S I think you should go to a dealer and try a TT and a C2. Whatever car you head for, make sure to get a good setting for either road or track. It really can make a difference. If you want to "feel" the car as you mentioned. Don't head for anything newer than a 993?

Crownvic

Hi FC Racer,

Thanks for your comparative road racing testimonial. Good thing I wasn't a passenger, mostly to spare you such a backseat driver.

Maybe because it is what is so lacking in my new pony car, the handling feel is what attracts me back to a Porsche. Historically handling is what brought Porsche its early roadracing and later grand prix success often against more powerful rivals. Not only they make up more seconds in the bends than other cars gain on the straightaways, but they can be a joy to launch through corners. It is that rare thrill which I yearn for, spinning through hairpins in the Swiss alps like James Bond's DB6 could only dream of.

So I guess that I'm really looking for a handling machine to fall in love with. While I enjoy torque and boost, it will only fulfill me if it is fully dedicated to engraving a stretch of road permenently into your memory in a joyous momentum akin to skiing on your favorite slope.

Would I be right in assuming that this is best found in a C2 than with a TT? When considering a Porsche in the past (late eighties/early nineties) I planned on staying away from the C2 due to their unpredictable tailhappiness in the wet. But I have since heard that the 993 all but fixed that on the C2. Can you confirm this? Otherwise I will prefer sticking to a C4 or TT as I tend to drive close to the limit and would be willing to sacrifice some sportiness for safety if pushing a C2 hard would be courting danger.



Vic

Crownvic

Hi Rassel,

You are right that those memories are engraved. 2 years later we took the 356 to Europe, so some of the memories were in the Alps and the Riviera before freeways made their appearance on that continent.

So to me a Porsche must be air-cooled as an indissociable part of the experience is the music to one's ears. Not so much for the engine sound as for the good times which are recorded in memory with its characteristic rumble as orchestration.

My eldest brother has kept all the family pictures of our 356 taken with a trusty Rolleflex, he was lucky enough to be old enough to drive it while I was relegated most of the time to the back seat. Must ask for copies of them now that scanners are a mainstream staple. Or better yet, find a 993 that can make me forget without regret. I already chosen its personalized vanity plates:
637

Ran

Crownvic, I agree with some of the comments made. Most importantly, you should try to get an opportunity either via rennlist or a dealer to test drive these roads with a 993TT, 993C2, 993C4, 964C2 and 964T since it seems that you have a fairly specific purpose in mind. You may end up wanting to modify the suspensions of the 993TT and the 993C4 though (although I would probably have modified a 993C2 suspension too). My 993TT was completely stock except for a modified suspension (bars, adj shocks, springs, bushings, strut). I know you want an air-cooled example but if not for that requirement, I would counsel a GT3. It satisfies most of your stated requirements (I think); in fact, the suspension, as compared to my modified 993TT, is more sporty in stock form while also being better at taking the bumps. Good luck and please post what you decide and how it works out for you.
PS: Since we have all these powerful cars in the US, when in Europe or elsewhere I try hard to hire smaller rally type cars and have enjoyed driving them almost as much (partly the variety and the scenery of course).

Peter S 993tt

All I can say is that I frequently drive my 993tt on the Taconic here in New York. It is a 2 lane twisty, windy road with lots of off camber turns. The car is truly amazing - even bone stock like mine. I've taken 10 mph turns at 60 without tire squeal. I get the spinning in my ears that is similar to a roller coaster. Quite frankly - you won't be disappointed with any of the models you mentioned. You just have to try them out to see which you prefer. I of course have my own bias.

tlark

The back roads are where these cars belong...............

So whats it really like......... like sneeking out with the farmers daughter, you know you can get in real trouble but its so good you cannot help it and you repeat as needed.

Robert Collins - 96 993TT

Hey Steve,
Do you happen to have any pictures or a link to any pictures or info about the 993 TT cabriolet? I never even heard Porsche made them and would love to see pictures of what they look like. I can imagine what it looks like, but it would be really cool to see one in an actual picture.

Crown Vic, you really need to go drive a 993TT and a NA 993 and draw your own conclusions. Just remember, most people are not comfortable with the TT power at first, but my how quickly people get used to it and want more!!!

I had a C2 cab, and now have a TT. While I think the C2 was more predictable in turns, that probably has something to do with the fact that I drove it for five years and was more comfortable with it than the new TT. The TT made me nervous at first, and I am still very respectful of it's ability to put me in a ditch. Having said that, I would not trade it for a NA 993 for anything. I love the car , the feel , the power etc etc etc....

In summary, if you understand the ability to steer a car with throttle management, any 993 is great. But the more power you have behind the pedal, the more potential you have from any aspect. That's where the 993TT wins.