60-130 MPH: New performance measurement!
08-17-2006, 10:40 AM
#856
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by TB993tt
Red
The AX22 in "continuous mode" is a reliable measure of acceleration (with a caveat about the "track" being level) - not to be spoken in the same sentence as "chassis dynos".
The results it delivers may be quite upsetting - hence the complete radio blackout on the 6bling site from the many who purchased the unit - even Evo Motorsports who apparently have bought an AX22 but continue to prefer chassis dyno numbers to real world results.
I find it amazing just how many people continue to buy "tuner's" wares when there is so much good information available on the net now days
The AX22 in "continuous mode" is a reliable measure of acceleration (with a caveat about the "track" being level) - not to be spoken in the same sentence as "chassis dynos".
The results it delivers may be quite upsetting - hence the complete radio blackout on the 6bling site from the many who purchased the unit - even Evo Motorsports who apparently have bought an AX22 but continue to prefer chassis dyno numbers to real world results.
I find it amazing just how many people continue to buy "tuner's" wares when there is so much good information available on the net now days
08-17-2006, 11:08 AM
#857
Originally Posted by BuddyG
While I too would like to see some AX22 numbers from 6speed many of the members there have posted quarter mile times and trap speeds which is easily as accurate or more accurate a measure of hp as the AX22.
Gonna hit mid mich motorplex 1/4 soon. Driving season is almost over!
08-17-2006, 12:10 PM
#858
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Buddy
Care to elaborate how an axle breaking 0-60mph (or 0-60ft) is a measure of HP or of a good pilot by the same token? Trap speed is a somewhat better indication, but only once you take out the 60ft time.
A fast 0-60ft will have an important impact on your trap speed even. To put it in simple terms, when you do a 0-60mph in 2.7 seconds because you have dropped your tire pressures to 15PSI, put on some slicks, softened suspension, etc..and burn the heck out of them before the starting line, you get about a second advantage at the end of the quartermile, how is that a measure of HP?
You want to know a good measure of HP, you look at the runs between TB's 540HP car and the EVO 750 HP car and see which one covers more distance within a certain time, no axle breaking heroism there.. The difference is that what I am saying is not an opinion, it is scientific, the formulas are written in physics books and whoever is interested in genuinely understanding what is torque and HP and how to measure it only needs to spend 10 minutes doing some calculations. The alternative is to continue wanting to ignore reality and have fun speculating on the net try to convince others that he really has the HP he was told he has
while deep inside of him and away from the net, he knows that he was ripped of but does ot want to look like a fool and accept it.
Even Todd, EVOMS owner, whose cars seem to be the fastest quartermilers out there, does not believe that the quartermile is the measure of HP, as a track instructor that he is, he recognizes that a good launch means little in relation to HP, other than give you an ego boost and shorten the life of your clutch, axles and, now that I think about it, maybe even brain cells (with all the Gs).
The compilation of the QMile data is very interesting for sure and a great read however, Scott has done an excellent job.
Care to elaborate how an axle breaking 0-60mph (or 0-60ft) is a measure of HP or of a good pilot by the same token? Trap speed is a somewhat better indication, but only once you take out the 60ft time.
A fast 0-60ft will have an important impact on your trap speed even. To put it in simple terms, when you do a 0-60mph in 2.7 seconds because you have dropped your tire pressures to 15PSI, put on some slicks, softened suspension, etc..and burn the heck out of them before the starting line, you get about a second advantage at the end of the quartermile, how is that a measure of HP?
You want to know a good measure of HP, you look at the runs between TB's 540HP car and the EVO 750 HP car and see which one covers more distance within a certain time, no axle breaking heroism there.. The difference is that what I am saying is not an opinion, it is scientific, the formulas are written in physics books and whoever is interested in genuinely understanding what is torque and HP and how to measure it only needs to spend 10 minutes doing some calculations. The alternative is to continue wanting to ignore reality and have fun speculating on the net try to convince others that he really has the HP he was told he has
while deep inside of him and away from the net, he knows that he was ripped of but does ot want to look like a fool and accept it.Even Todd, EVOMS owner, whose cars seem to be the fastest quartermilers out there, does not believe that the quartermile is the measure of HP, as a track instructor that he is, he recognizes that a good launch means little in relation to HP, other than give you an ego boost and shorten the life of your clutch, axles and, now that I think about it, maybe even brain cells (with all the Gs
). The compilation of the QMile data is very interesting for sure and a great read however, Scott has done an excellent job.
08-17-2006, 12:22 PM
#859
Burning Brakes
Jean,
I agree that the Qmile is hard on parts and the 60 to 130 is much easier on the car. However you also can have variances that effect this measurement such as temperature, altitude, wind, road incline/decline, etc...
I previously stated I would like to see some AX22 times from 6speed and even posted it up over there.
The only real test is to run these cars side by side, barring that we have the Ax22 and Qmile to test how the vehicles perform.
Keep up the good work!
I agree that the Qmile is hard on parts and the 60 to 130 is much easier on the car. However you also can have variances that effect this measurement such as temperature, altitude, wind, road incline/decline, etc...
I previously stated I would like to see some AX22 times from 6speed and even posted it up over there.
The only real test is to run these cars side by side, barring that we have the Ax22 and Qmile to test how the vehicles perform.
Keep up the good work!
08-17-2006, 05:07 PM
#860
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Buddy
You are right, the absolute best measurement is to put them side by side. Unfortunately distances do not permit it sometimes, so the AX22 provides some fun and seems good when compared to other accelerometer (only) based tools. I use it a lot on the track and its accuracy lap after lap is scary, I even removed my AIM Pro datalogging device.
Tilt (and incline) can be very accurately spotted and even calculated in degrees, we have beaten that unknown, provided the datalogs are shared. Temps can be somewhat adjusted for, I know a lot about high temps! Altitude etc is almost irrelevant in turbocharged engines despite what I read here and there. Aerodynamics can be somewhat calculated and head wind has an easy fix, you do two runs in opposite direction and average them (same for incline).
Hopefully we'll see a few more.
Cheers
You are right, the absolute best measurement is to put them side by side. Unfortunately distances do not permit it sometimes, so the AX22 provides some fun and seems good when compared to other accelerometer (only) based tools. I use it a lot on the track and its accuracy lap after lap is scary, I even removed my AIM Pro datalogging device.
Tilt (and incline) can be very accurately spotted and even calculated in degrees, we have beaten that unknown, provided the datalogs are shared. Temps can be somewhat adjusted for, I know a lot about high temps! Altitude etc is almost irrelevant in turbocharged engines despite what I read here and there. Aerodynamics can be somewhat calculated and head wind has an easy fix, you do two runs in opposite direction and average them (same for incline).
Hopefully we'll see a few more.
Cheers
08-26-2006, 06:03 AM
#861
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Well my thanks to Woodster who decided to finally use his AX22 
The car is a 996TT with PSI 480HP upgrade.
He did a few runs and sent them out to me, all are checked. He will elaborate on the conditions a bit more.
60-130mph in 10.97s, with 3 (rather slowish) shifts. He could have done it in two and saved some time. This performance is quite in line with his 480PS engine I would say. As it is , it is very similar to an X50 (450HP) performance, however, with one shift less, and some better fuel, he would be better off.
The car is a 996TT with PSI 480HP upgrade.
He did a few runs and sent them out to me, all are checked. He will elaborate on the conditions a bit more.
60-130mph in 10.97s, with 3 (rather slowish) shifts. He could have done it in two and saved some time. This performance is quite in line with his 480PS engine I would say. As it is , it is very similar to an X50 (450HP) performance, however, with one shift less, and some better fuel, he would be better off.
08-26-2006, 06:11 AM
#862
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Well done Woodster - you have joined the exclusive and illusive group of people not afraid to disclose to the world their AX22 60-130mph
I think a third gear start is in order, your shifts look marginally better than mine (which is nothing to be proud of
)
I think a third gear start is in order, your shifts look marginally better than mine (which is nothing to be proud of
)
08-26-2006, 09:46 AM
#863
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Reality is often different than "fantasy"
But with my little old K-16's one would not expect much better.
92 octane crappy gas with Ethanol blend,
74 degrees
180 lbs. driver.
I will try again with better gas,
cheers. MK
But with my little old K-16's one would not expect much better.
92 octane crappy gas with Ethanol blend,
74 degrees
180 lbs. driver.
I will try again with better gas,
cheers. MK
08-30-2006, 07:45 PM
#865
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Someone in the UK please lend me your AX22, i have a 9m 490ish fwbhp 930 and a nice quiet 1 mile stretch of local road to test on, i would LOVE to see the result as i'm sure some of you would 
10-17-2006, 05:47 PM
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*bump*
A 997 turbo with light mods and stock turbos from German tuner Heidl did 0-100kph in 3.24s!!!
0-200kph in 10.8s. German car mag Auto Bild Tuning.
Tiptronic with 540 horses.
Should be 60-130mph in about 8.5s.
I do not have the article handy but there are quarter miles times also.
A Gemballa did worse with more claimed hp...
A 997 turbo with light mods and stock turbos from German tuner Heidl did 0-100kph in 3.24s!!!
0-200kph in 10.8s. German car mag Auto Bild Tuning.
Tiptronic with 540 horses.
Should be 60-130mph in about 8.5s.
I do not have the article handy but there are quarter miles times also.
A Gemballa did worse with more claimed hp...
10-17-2006, 05:55 PM
#870
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This is 100-200kph in about 7.6 seconds, which is the same as the old TTP 996TT 520HP and Sportec 996TT 540HPstock weight territory. With the advantage of the new Tiptronic and being lightweight, does not seem like a stellar performance for the new 997TT.
Thanks Stummel.
Thanks Stummel.