LAT

The June issue of MT has the Hennessey Viper with 983 HP and 981 lb ft torque at the rear wheel doing 11.7 @ 138.7 mostly because the car can't get the power to the ground and hook up with 335/30 ZR20 on the rear.

Stock weight for the Viper is 3400 lbs.

I don't see a 3800 lbs. 996TT doing a better job in the 1/4 mile.

I stand by my first call.

LAT

PS. This is in no way a plug for Vipers. (infomation used here is for illustration purposes only...

PPS. The 10.65 @ 135mph runs are something to be proud about.

Jean

LAT
My freedom of speech is to say that you were trigger happy without knowing anything about the car, it is my opinion, which could be mistaken.

I can't do more guys to help, to each his conclusions, I might be mistaken about the weight during that run or the boost level in the quartermile (the Ax22 file), I will need to check those, but that does not change the timing..Assuming there is nothing wrong with the data, which I am still checking.

The owner obviously knows how to use the AX22 based on the posted quartermile run so it is not equipment error, the only other thing that remains is if he cheated. It would be stupid knowing what the reputation he has at stake.

Or...I might be lying to defend my tuner

As I said, if nothing else, it is a nice chart, and helped bring some life to this thread..

red993tt

This 996TT is very well known in the streetracing scene and other forums . The only thing that came close to keeping up with it was indeed a Viper Twin Turbos.

As for your info on Hennessey ViperTT doing 11.7s . Here's one Hennessey ViperTT convertible doing 9.75s.

http://media.putfile.com/Viper-9s-Run



Vincent

Woodster

fastest twin turbo vipers on street tires run low to mid 10's
on slicks, they can drop into the 9's
Heffner (not Hennessey the Texas Clown), has some of the faster ones...

MK

LAT

red, your finding support the position that it is not likely that a 3800 lb car with 850 RWHP would be doing 9.0 @ 160.0
The Viper in the video has what, over 1,000 RWHP and weights in at 3400 and does a 9.75, how much more to get to 9.0?

Jean sorry you are taking this in what seems to be a personal manner, my rebuttal is only meant to dispute the facts until they are irrefutable like the time slips or video. If the car in question has either a time slip or video and they are willing to post them I will undoubtedly retract my comment.

Till then it have to stand.

All the best

LAT

Jean

LAT, nothing personal.

I understand the sceptism, that I personally had as well. The difference being that I know this car and what has been done to it, and I also have data in my hands that, so far, seems credible. This car runs 1.9 Bars of boost on C16 fuel to get those 9s quartermile runs. Have you seen his shift? That alone gives him a 1 second advantage, add to that that he does only one shift, while being in 2nd gear, not 4th like the rest of us.

Moreover, the data is undergoing very detailed calculations to check its validity or whether there is an issue with the tilt or other. We'll see.

A video is certainly not more accurate than this. This car has reportedly beaten some of these 9s Vipers in street racing, it would be difficult for someone so high profile in streetracing to lie so openly, many people on the boards with cars tuned by the competition are his neighbours and can see or drive the car anytime.

I have just checked a time slip of another viper with a 9s run and 150+ trap speed, and the 60-130 is in the 5s.

Just to clarify, in case I misreported ( I just double checked and I never said it ran with 3800lbs the 9 second quartermile, so no point in continuing along the line of a 3800lbs quartermile debate), this TT did not do the quartermile in 9s with the 3800lbs of weight certainly. This is its daily running weight however, and it IS a daily driver. Even assuming it is running 3000lbs or 2700lbs, it would still be quite an achievement IMO.

Dknebes

I have been watching this thread and always see a lot of sceptics on times of some of these cars. I will post my video again and yes it has the tachometer is bouncing that is me trying to spool the turbo. Yes it is a video that could be off as far as the accuracy of the time and yes it is a little difficult to see the speedometer and yes the accuracy of the speedometer has to be verified. I believe the 993 in question is capable of the time posted. 1989 930 5 speed 733rwhp 3010 lbs.

www.klsales.com/porsche/video8.mpg

JJayB

Jean
Thanks for the clarification, I seized on your post #643 and was preparing to do do the math but lost my slide rule. I see that 6bling on line hasn't challenged the numbers so it must be true. Looking forward to the data.
FWIW, airbag equippted cars have accelerometers. Alledgedly, some of the improper deploment is the result of improperly calibrated accelerometer. Honda Motor Company has denied any defect.

Jimmy the fugitive
993tt 3.8 Andial aka Blackie

LAT

Jean
You are correct you did not say 3800 lbs and 9 secs. You did however call it a heavyweight.

Enough of he said he said, can you get copies of timing slips from any track this car has been at?

Thanks

LAT

Woodster

This will be quite interesting to see (VR Alexander's time slips)
He also supposedly has some video on a track with a former F1 car...

We shall see very soon!

MK

TB993tt

4.4 seconds 60-130mph, that is 3.2 seconds faster than my 1450kg RWD 540hp car –that amazing power shift may have saved up to a second on my two crap gear changes but this is an amazing time and one I doubt will be beaten anytime soon with an equivalent weight 911.
On 6bling there is the expected adoration and high fives and I guess this run will stop any of the other 700+hp boys from risking exposure, On Rennlist there has been some disbelief expressed but the owner has built a very focused machine whose wider capabilities and limitations I feel should be discussed further and it would be great to get some input from the builder and the owner ?

As I intimated in an earlier post, this car is different to a machine by Ruf or other tuners who will deliver a package which should be reliable for a fair mileage in ALL conditions, whether lapping the ring or holding flat out on the ‘bahn.
This car at low boost will doubtlessly perform as reliably (and possibly still faster) than other conservatively tuned cars.

What I am fascinated by is when the wick is turned up, how long will the thing last ?
In a road situation in Europe ? My guess is that the engine would last somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes if Stummel was let loose with it at 4am on his favourite Autobahn stretch.

Surely this sort of power can only be released in 15-20 second bursts, the heat and forces present MUST destroy the engine if any longer – the engine is made of the same metals as a stock engine ? Race units running under 700hp have lives measured in hours.

So just how many 1000hp bursts can it do ? My guess would be a life at full chat (in bursts) of less than 30 minutes – this represents around 90 runs up through the gears to near 200mph.

Tuners in Europe occasionally do come up with engines like this, FVD reportedly set the record on RS Tuning’s engine dyno with a ~900hp monster for a Middle Eastern gent a couple of years back, but Euro tuners don’t like to make these sorts of engines which their customers could take onto the Autobahn since the results would trash their reputations.

Commissioning and building such a machine as this takes great skill on the part of the builder and commitment on the part of the owner and big kudos to both.

Stummel

TB, Well summarized I think. More infos on the engine specs would be very intersting.

The question how many minutes it will last at V-Max is more of a theoretical value as it is not possible to do this in the US.
An Open Road event would be suicide on full boost.

My question is wouldn't there be enough cooling at 200+mph with the right wing and IC?
All I know is that I drove a GT2 at 200+mph for a couple of minutes and the temp gauge did not move a damn millimeter. Water sounds bad but cools well...

What is with the new Sportec Engine with a good 800hp? This for sure will last under load.

I am not sure if this is impossible with that kind of money.
Give Reinhold "unlimited" budget plus a water cooled 911 and I think next season you had 1000 real hp in your daily driver. You could go to Nardo and blow away the 400kph that the 9ff amateurs are not capable of.

Woodster

TB, Stummel, Jean, Jimmy the law breaker, LAT, etc.
good points buy all. An interesting note is that this Car has lasted very long and has been driven
very, very hard (on the track, drag strip, and certainly has not been babied on the street!).
Certainly a purpose built car that took (like TB mentioned) and incredible amount of money,
time and patience, and according to the builder's husband (Todd @ Protomotive) it has lasted
very well under extreme conditions. Note to above, it is Cynthia (Todd's wife) that actually
hand builds these motors !!!!!!, and another extreme (albeit aircooled version, 993TT) Porsche
motor they built has been running strong for six years and run regularily in the 9's in the quartermile
@ 158 or so (guy likes anonymity--lives in Oklahoma, and yes car is 993TT lightened somewhat).
Also a final note which I will personally see and verify:
The wild and Crazy "Markski" (DJ from Poland) is having his car built a Protomotive as we speak,
they are really pushing envelope with special cams, valves, GT3RS heads, etc. etc.
I will ride in this car (bring my own AZ-22) and report back to all who care to hear.
Another observation I have had recently about overall drivabiltiy/trackability when modding...
My little K-16's with a nice torquey (not high boost) ECU mod by PSI, along with free flowing
exhuast, and a new Cross JIC suspension works absolutely beautiful for track (good responsiveness,
and pull out of slow corners), and good for some nice street blasts (I have taught a few people
that I know lessons "from a roll".
Makes we wonder if I go with bigger turbos, what I will be sacrificing ??
sorry for the babbling--its early yet!

Marty K.

Craig.

A couple of irrelevant and poorly conceived observations from an admittedly uninformed and rather simple minded novice:

1. Alex’s car is far from your typical tuner product. Protomotive spent over two years designing and building this car, at a cost well into the six figure range. Therefore, Alex’s car defies comparison to packages offered by other tuners. It is completely unique, and its extraordinary acceleration is unparalleled in the world of 996TTs!

2. Alex’s car was purpose built for high power and top end acceleration. It employs ENORMOUS GT35R turbos that are capable of generating far more power than any of the traditional turbos used by 996TT tuners (as far as I know). Alex fully recognizes the trade offs in using these turbos, including increased lag, but they meet his particular performance goals.

3. Several Rennlist members were quick to disbelieve and discredit the 4.4 time recorded by Alex simply because it defied their prior experiences, and their preconceived notions of the inherent limitations of the 996TT (frankly, it shocked the hell out of me as well). I refer you again to point nos. 1 and 2. Alex’s car is unlike any other 996TT -- it breaks new ground in terms of raw power and speed. Therefore, one should not be surprised that it is able to accelerate faster than any other currently existing 996TT (at least that I am aware of).

4. Jean has thoroughly reviewed the AX22 file generated by Alex and, as far as I know, he has confirmed the authenticity of the data.

5. I found it particularly amusing that, after disbelieving Alex’s 4.4 time, then being forced to face the reality that the time is accurate, one or more Rennlist members then predicted that Alex’s engine will self-destruct in a matter of minutes (in other words, denial followed by disparagement). The facts appear to suggest otherwise. Alex has put over 10,000 miles on the car of VERY HARD DRIVING, including countless WOT runs, sustained high speed driving through the desert (including in several organized events), several track events (including both road courses and ¼ mile tracks), and several organized races (including both from a stop and a rolling start). He drives his car harder than anyone I know. Yet, his car recently passed a thorough inspection and testing, and continues to run like new. IMHO, comparisons to race car engines are not germane, as these engine incorporate certain specialized components (e.g., titanium valves) that contribute to the limited life span of the engine -- Alex’s engine does not use such components.

6. It appears to me that certain Rennlist members are so strongly biased towards European tuners, such as Ruf and RS Tuning, that they have difficulty accepting positive performance figures generated by American tuners -- particularly performance figures that exceed those achieved by European tuners. The RT12 is an awesome car, but is NOT the end-all, be-all, performance benchmark. RS Tuning builds some amazing cars, as do many other well-established European tuners. However, there are also several American tuners who are doing equally impressive things with 996TTs. The European tuners do not have a monopoly on Porsche tuning.

7. Finally, it is amusing how certain Rennlist members take every opportunity to disparage 6Speedonline and its membership. This thread, and the 4.4 time recorded by Alex, has NOTHING whatsoever to do with 6Speedonline. Nevertheless, in disbelieving and/or discrediting Alex’s 4.4 time, one or more Rennlist members felt in necessary to disparage “6Bling” and its members simply because they trusted the time (absent concrete evidence to the contrary). Moreover, certain Rennlist members periodically proclaim their distaste of 6Speedonline and their refusal to join and/or participate on 6Speedonline, yet these same individuals continue to read 6Speedonline on a regular basis, as evidenced by their intimate familiarity with recent 6Speedonline posts. Why would anyone continue to read 6Speedonline if, as they claim on Rennlist, they find 6Speedonline so utterly distasteful? It reminds me of the scene in the Howard Stern movie, “Private Parts,” where the program director asks why people who hate Hoard Stern listen to him for longer than people who like Stern: “To see what he will say next.”

Keep in mind that I am admittedly far less knowledgeable in these matters than the vast majority of the members of Rennlist and, therefore, I have likely made several errors in this post, for which I apologize in advance. Moreover, my comments are not directed at any particular Rennlist member.

Craig

edpurplett

JMHO.... Todd and Cynthia Knighton build 'purpose built' machines per owner request....so he doesn't fit a 'profile'.

But I can tell you as an owner of 2 Proto-built rigs and one home built Bosch EFi rig with their help .. he knows a lot of tricks to holding together Porsche engines and virtually every limit of every part and virtually every configuration available.... People laugh when I share my ring-gap for example.......but case in point.. I am unaware of any of his engines tearing ring lands out, which I have seen on numerous turbo builds...

but Todd/Cynthia/Protosport and Protomotive have probably built .. I dunno.... over 1000.. (all Todds gear) 500+ HP engines.. my only point is don't compare what he does to regular tuners.. since he has pushed the envelope with a lot of customers... I mean how many people will give their tuner carte-blanche to max out HP or MPH and understand it will probably destroy MULTIPLE engines exploring the limits so they can have more HP or MPH than anyone else...(and I am not saying this is the owner of this car, but other high profile clients of Protomotive)..call me biased....

but also don't forget they build a Ton of cannonball cars... so... so much for sustained runs..... and Todd will be the first to tell you that cars do disentigrate on cannonballs....if they exceed X level boost, EGT's exceed X, etc... but the owners know they are risking their rides at the boost levels they are running.... ... point is .. lord knows what boost level 1.9.. more? he ran for 9's.... so maybe 1000 HP is low...