PRSWILL

That would scare me. Could it be a washer from a piston ? Possibly the top of a broken bolt in there yet? hmm..

Quadcammer

care to explain what piston washers are?

PRSWILL

I knew that was going to draw fire--Not being the mechanical guru most of you are, I was thinking it could be a washer or some sort of guide where the bolts that attach the piston rods to the crankshaft.. it's got to be something from the lower end doesn't it?

Todynot

reiner, has the engine been through a re-build...ever? maybe it dropped into the case from the the mechanics top pocket and he didn't notice. Could have been sitting in the engine case for quite a while.

bcameron59

Found a pic from Mike J's rebuild, shape seems to be the same but scale / size doesn't look right to me unless Mike J has really teeny fingers:

EDIT: on closer review,
- the OP's foreign object is about the size of the penny
- my fingers are slightly smaller diameter than a penny
- Mike J's fingers look to be very close to the size of the washer
So I'm changing my vote, I think CalvinC4S nailed it.

No way that came loose and fell in, though. It got in there at the factory or when engine underwent some major surgery at some point. So OP's engine isn't about to come apart. Might have caused some damage while floating around, but if it seems to run OK I would be inclined to just keep driving it unless it's time for other work anyway (sounds like that may be the case for ReinerFink).

Don't worry, be happy.

ReinerFink

I'm the 2nd owner, and the car had 48k miles when I acquired it 1999. So, its possible that it had bottom end work done that I am not aware of.

I'll drop the dealership and see if they have any of the suspected part to compare against. PET says there are 13 of them so perhaps that was the unlucky number and my Stuttgart mechanic used 14 :-(

Anyhow, engine will come out this weekend. I think I will open up the bottom to check for major damage. I worry about what that part could have done to the 2ndary shaft.

Thanks again all!

-reiner

race911

Deleted........... Geez, if you read my post here you'd know I read one thing then started typing something else. Been up too long already today.

NC TRACKRAT

If it ain't broke, why "fix" it? If your clutch hasn't failed yet, why pull the engine and open up the case to look for damage that may not have occurred? A leakdown & compression test, along with listening to the valve train with a stethoscope should ease your mind and let you know if that upper end job is on the horizon.

bcameron59

+1
Sounded like OP was planning a top end and clutch anyway, but if these aren't urgent I'd agree with just leaving it, and doing a couple of easy tests as noted.

Valve guide wear might not show up with those tests, but the risk of valve stem failure due to this must be pretty low as there seem to be few, if any, forum posts about this actually happening.

ReinerFink might as well get full use of all that oil he just changed, and wait until the clutch forces the issue of an engine drop and other work.

trophy

Sure does look like the throughbolt washer to me (and I have had mine apart recently). The concave washer for the valve's are a multi step design, and larger.

The big question is if it is a throughbolt washer, how did it get there. The only way would be during an engine out issue where the case was split as for any top end work you don't need to touch those bolts.

it has to have entered the case by being dropped into holes for the oil return tubes or on top of the case for the breather etc. If the cylinders and pistons were off the engine there are a few extra places it could make it's way into the case.

My concern would be where has the part floated around? If it has bounced around near the intermediate shaft there is potential damage to the gears there. It is too big to be ingested in to the oil pump as it would have jammed it immediately. The chain gears are also fairly delicate and if it spent any time there could damage the teeth or the chains themselves.

If it got caught between the bottom of a rod and the oil pump it could quite easily crack the casing of the oil pump (magnesium housing). This could cause a reduction in oil pressure because of an oil leek. Also the strain or pressure on the rod cap or rod bolt could cause future issues.

If it were me, I would be splitting the case and making sure there is no other damage in there.

axl911

The inner hole is too small to be a thru-bolt washer.

Here is the thru bolt washer.

http://pcarworkshop.com/images/3/37/020219_-_0045.JPG

jscott82

+1

By the looks of the washer.. Its banged into a few things... Question is "what were they" and "how did they survive the encounter".

NineMeister

It looks like one of the two washers that sit on top of the right hand camshaft carrier which prevent the air shroud from being crushed when bolting down the bracket on the back of the aircon pump tower. In the photo of a 964 engine, the stepped washer fits into the slots on the edge of the fan shroud before the power steering/aircon bracket is fitted. The hole through the middle of that part will be around 6.5mm diameter if I am correct.

How it got into the engine is anyone's guess......

pp000830

Hard to say what it was. If it was a fastener or some other key internal part from the bottom I suspect you would know it right away. Probably something that fell into the engine a long time ago and just came to you attention recently. You could buy a cheap video endoscope at Harbor Freight allowing you to look at the rod end bolts without removing the engine or dismantling the engine case.
Andy :-)

Mike J

Remember if someone dropped something in while the valve covers were off, its possible to have something this size migrate down the oil return tubes into the crankcase.

And yes, my fingers are "ordinary" size, although I have been told I am good with my hands...

Cheers,

Mike