osugasman

OK. We can all agree on staged tightening to 96 ft-lbs torque. Earlier, Alex posted a Porsche document stating that anti-seize should be used and to still use 96 ft-lbs torque. I could not find it directly addressed in the shop manual for the anti-seize compound part.

Thoughts?

Seamless

Lubrication is necessary in any threaded joint. Without it, the clamping force applied to the wheel may as well be zero. Using lubrication is the only way to properly estimate (not calculate) applied clamping force. Even with Lubrication, the clamping force can at best +/- 25% of the theoretical value.

Anti Seize is a great way to reduce galvanic corrosion between aluminum nuts and steel studs, while providing lubrication to the joint.

I am not sure if the book values assume the lubrication is used, but I would recommend it. Better to have a slightly over-torqued joint (due to it being slippery) than under-torqued (due to friction)...for fatigue reasons that I wont get into.

kjr914

We beat this dead horse a few months ago....
Search terms:
lug nuts anti seize
Some threads with Steve Weiner comments:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-lug-nuts.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-lug-nuts.html

P-daddy

Oh boy, here we go.....

osugasman

So Keith, I'm guessing you follow Steve's recommendations. I'm cool with that. However, it is hard to state one thing as Bible and then see a TSB stating

"All the wheel related Technical Service Bulletins starting from the eighties have a section specifically for aluminum wheel nuts, the steel fasteners are separate with no mention of them requiring lube;

"Aluminum wheels nuts require special care.

Before installing:

-- lubricate threads and shoulders of aluminum nuts with Optimoly HT, Part No 999-917-728-00 (Optimoly HT does not affect tightening torque)"

Later TSBs (1988-1989) referred to Optimoly TA, Part No 000-043-020-00"
per JasonAndreas and Alex (IXLR8)

I guess the real answer is that if you at least anti-seize the crown, you will be fine. Agree?

kjr914

I'm no expert, but I to a large degree trust those who do this professionally and for many more years than I. Steve gets a bow for being a busy guy who takes time out to share some of his hard earned knowledge here on RL993.

That said, there's a reason that I included the link with Steve's and the somewhat dissenting TSB comment. Clear from both is that anti-sieze on the mating face/lip of lug nuts is ok and a good idea.

I think the impt thing in the TSB quote (originally Jason Andreas IIRC) is this:
Given that most people won't have this type of lube, that is possibly why it's not generally recommend. In the absence of this type of lube, very clean threads which allow proper torquing to spec, seem to be a good idea. (which is what Steve was suggesting). Either way, it is a "dry" torque value, since the recommended lube "does not affect tightening torque". (So Steve & TSB were kinda saying the same thing...dry torque.)

What does it all mean? ....that I'm going to have to clean my threads next time I take the wheels off, since I used some anti-seize on threads before this (and the prior) thread popped up!

Mike J

Don't put too much one - it makes a real mess when you change out the wheels, and the bottom of each nut has a coating that gets on your hands, pants, shirt, etc. Personal experience here, encountered a few cars where the PO had the mantra "more is better" and really slopped the stuff on, so much so that it was on the insides of the wheel barrels.

Cheers,

Mike

IXLR8

Keith, we beat a lot of things on Rennlist (or any forum) to death countless times over...and the vast majority of the info is based on absolutely eff-all instead of anything concrete.

I would tend to believe a manufacturer's recommendation long before any other gospel posted on any forum. Strange that it has always worked for me and never caused me any grief.

I would suggest that the experts on here take it up with Porsche and get back to us with their reply.

IXLR8

I'll tell you what. I'll let you know when one of my wheels falls off or a lug nut loosens or a wheel stud fails.

So far in 37 years, I'm still waiting.

Ed Hughes

Yes, it's wise to never question what Porsche states...after all, Porscbe has never made any engineering flubs-a perfect track record.

nine9six

Rule of thumb for fasteners of dissimilar metals (alum nuts - steel studs) "should" have a thin coating of anti sieze compound to prevent galling of the threads. In this specific application, I would also use a thin coat on the radii of the wheel nuts where they contact the wheel.
I think the operative word is "thin"; as opposed to liberal.

993C4RS

At Andial we would put a dab on the studs and a small amount on the mounting surface of the lug nut. We would be careful not to put too much on the mounting surface because it would create "drips" on the wheels after driving. Not desired on customer's fancy Fuchs. Also, one experience from galled lug nuts with no lube or anti-seize, I had to drill, cut, and shear off two lug nuts from a customer's 73 RS.. I was not happy, it took me hours and I had to be super careful not to damage the finish of the Fuchs..

Paolo1

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of what constitutes a proper amount. Many thanks. Clearly, I'm no expert.