brucec59

I was reading a thread on Pelican about using anti-seize goo on the lug nuts. Does this apply to 993s as well? Do you put it on the face that contacts the wheel only, or on the threads, too?

TIA

Mark in Baltimore

I put them on the threads of the studs and not the wheel itself.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,..I put it on the ball face of the nuts that rest against the wheel, not on the studs.

If you put it on the stud threads, you can inadvertenly overtorque the wheels and sometimes it can feel just like a warped rotor.

Baggerdude

Steve....

I know you are one of the "main guys" when it comes to Porsches. I have the utmost faith in what you recommend.

But, I like anti-seize stuff on bolts and such. Use it on lots o'motocyle parts with good results.

Now, I don't torque my lug nuts to some spec.... perhaps I should. I was brought up doing things "by hand"... (don't go there, guys!). Like just "this tight", then a bit "more". Hard to explain, but I've done this on many vehicles and always with the oil filters.

BTAIM... and you ARE an expert here, but if one puts the anti-seize (not very much, now... or high temp grease?) on the threads where it was probably meant to be placed... and torqued to spec, why would they be 'over torqued'? Sorry, I just don't understand how that can be.

Also, does this stuff refer to street cars as well as those that are tracked? I would suspect that tracked cars have much higher loads.

I have found that applying some high temp grease or anti-seize to the threads (just a bit, not all goopy and such...), aids me removing the lug nuts when I swap out the wheels for snow sneakers.

Please explain.... Thanx, Steve.

AOW162435

I've used a small amount of anti-seize paste on all wheel studs of all the cars I've ever owned. The 993 is no exception. But I also make a point of cleaning the threads with a rag each time, to minimize build-up within the lug nut.

As for torquing, I always get my reading as I rotate the torque wrench to the final value. In other words, I do not crank the lug nuts on with a breaker bar, and then come back to check with a torque wrench.

I've never had one of my wheels pass me on the highway yet

Andreas

jnx

I agree with Baggerdude, If it's torqued at whatever ft/lb why would it become overtorqued because it has less resistance. Does not make sense.

mr_bock

I started using 'Never-Seez' on my studs and the ball area of the lug nut. This started after one of my lug nuts galled to the alloy wheel. The hex body of the lug snapped off leaving nothing to get a grip on. I had to drill small holes around what was left of the aluminum lug untill I could break it away. I had to replace the stud, which was the easy part. Out of all the lug nuts (torqued to 94 Ft/Lbs) only one would not come off. Now all of the nuts get the anti-seize compound.

ZombiePorsche44

Never used it on lug nuts before and have never had a lug not back off. My 993 wheels, like my previous 911's with alloy lug nuts, is a no impact wrench zone!

I only allow hand tools/tightening/torque of my lugs.

ZP44

Bull

BTW, Porsche recommends the use of a bit of grease on lugs for their techs. i have mine off and on so often that I don't believe it matters, so don't.

Jack of Hearts

I agree with most of the others here and DO use a tiny bit of Anti-Seize compound on the studs only. This is an old habit from SCCA racing days. Anti-seize does migrate a bit so that when the nut is screwed on a tiny bit creeps to the face of the nut as well. There are two reasons for doing this. One is so that the aluminum nut does not gall. (But I also do it with steel lug nuts). The second is because a dry fastener tends to "stick," especially if it is torqued in increments, whereas a lubricated fasterner smoothly rotates up to torque. I would argue that torquing the nuts dry can leave to undertorqueing or overtorqueing.

As to Steve W.'s point: The key question is, is Porsche's spec for wheel torque with a dry fasterner or a lubricated fastener? I don't know the answer (although some are saying here it is with a lubed fastener).

Bull

Lubed.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Bagger:

Porsche has always recommended lubricants on the lug nuts, but NOT on the threads,....only the surface resting against the wheel. They assume that the threads are clean. The 92-94 lbs-ft torque spec is based on this and when the threads are lubed with something slipperier than light oil, the stud gets stretched and its anchor (hub or upright) is distorted. There is a LOT of information out there on fasteners & torque settings all for the taking and you'll get a real education on this subject,.....

Mr_bock's tale tells why the ball-end of the lug nuts must be lubed and that situation is not uncommon when they are properly treated with the correct product.

No broken studs, galled lug nuts (steel or alloy) on hundreds of cars in 33+ years,... I learned this from Chuck Stoddard and from some folks at the Factory.

Ultimately though, its your car and you should do whatever makes you happy. I have some liability when I remove & replace wheels on a customer's car so I follow Factory recommendations.

Garth S

Just to toss something into the works ...

Clean & dry threads in both stud and nut provide very consistent tensioning of fasteners: careful use of a thread lube can also provide consistent tensioning, and is safe as long as the applied force ( torque) remains well within the elastic limit of the fastener.
Studs & bolts only apply useful compression when they are stretched - and this stretch must stay within the known elastic limits: otherwise, the steel becomes plastic, loses tension, and will fail. Torsion bars, springs, etc all work on the same basis re working range.
The true measure of clamping force is fastener elongation: this is impractical to measure on captive stuff ( practically everything in a car), so a torque wrench provides a reliable approximation.
Excuse the long winded circle, but it comes back to the torque wrench being the best tool that works on a secondary issue to approximate the desired elastic stretch of a bolt .... so consistency is important.
To answer the question of how lube causes overtightening when using the same torque setting ... the torque wrench is only measuring the friction between the bolt and nut and nut and mounting face: more lube = less friction = more bolt stretch for the same measured torque.

BTW, placing a dab of anti-seize or lube on the faces of the hub and/or wheel flange is not a great idea. Wheels are largely held on by the friction generated between these two surfaces when under compression - and this is best with dry surfaces: the 5 studs provide this clamping force. If the studs were too loose, too tight, or the surfaces lubed, the wheel would slip on the hub and apply a shear force to the studs .... not good, for they were intended to work in compression vs. shear.

TomF

Steve, thanks for the tip about the "warped rotor feeling." I have been having subtle symptoms of warped rotors, but in a cursory look have found no evidence that they are warped. I bet that I overtorqued my wheels. (I do it by feel, and I tend to overdo it.) They are new rotors from Suncoast BTW. If I remove the wheels and torque them to spec, will this help, or have I possibly bent the rims?!

tj90

Intersting comments on subject... Steve & Garths response seems reasonable. Probably important to add that non-lubed lugs assumes that your threads are clean - corrosion or debris could artifically increase friction and cause the bolt to not be enough tension. I guess lubing the faces with antiseize would it be appropriate to minimize galling since you essentially are mating or "welding" the 2 Al faces together with physical energy.
Ive never lubed lug nuts threads or the faces - but I never worked with Al nuts that could gall with the rim either. Based on this thread I will start putting antiseize on aluminum nut faces... I will continue to use the torque wrench to 90 ft-lbs.... For my other cars, I wont bother using any antiseize since the chrome nuts dont gall.