MielsOnWheels

No real point to this point, just putting some thoughts out there. As has been discussed many times, Audis are gateway drugs to Porsches. It certainly was for me. I've had my 993 about a month now, and I absolutely love it. Prior to getting the car, my Audi is what I drove on the weekend since I travel much of the week and drive a Subaru Outback as my company car. Essentially, the Audi is my wife's car. Now that I have the 993, that's what I've been driving on the weekends, so I hadn't driven the Audi at all for a month.

Last night, I needed to drive the Audi to take my son, sister-in-law, and mother-in-law to see my daughter in her dance recital at Carpenter Center here in Richmond. My wife had driven her there earlier in the day in the Subie. Notwithstanding the immense pride I had in watching my little girl on that big stage (love you Sarah!), I was amazed with the Audi. I've had the car for more than 7 years. It is incredibly solid and well built (69k), reliable, comfortable, fast, and most importantly safe. Originally, the deal I made with my wife is that we'd keep it for 5 years and get something new. As I said, we're on Year 7, and I find absolutely no reason to sell it - it is an excellent car.

I post this simply to state a fact that probably all of us are in agreement with - nothing really compares to German vehicles. There is something about them that separates them from everything else - it is a feeling that can only be described as "soul" - you can feel the passion and pride that went into designing them, constructing them...almost that the brand (Audi, Porsche, etc.) sees us as a preserver and safekeeper of the car more than an "owner". This, to me, is felt perceptibly when you get behind the wheel.

My wife jokes that I've "left" the 4.2 and found a new love in the 993 - that's hardly been the case. I simply have added another paramour to the garage! I love them both, give a glance to both,and appreciate them both when I walk into the house- they are outstanding examples of their respective marques.

Just my thoughts- I'm going for a drive...in BOTH!

Harry L

Well said.

Between my wife and I, we have had 9 Audis in 15 years (B5 S4, two A6s, four A4s, 4.2L Q7S Line and the one that started it all: 4000s quattro).

We are believers.

In the hunt right now for a B6 or B7 S4 Avant to use as my personal kid and dog hauler.

My wife loves (I do not) her behemoth (Q7 S Line) and plans on keeping it for a long time.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, my true love and devotion has always been (and will always be) directed to 911s - especially those of the air-cooled variety.

Harry

M. Schneider

I'll chime in ....
As the original owner of a MY96 Audi UrS6 Avant and my dailey driver of 10yr/100k miles I'd go on to order a MY05 Outback XT LTD........ after a brief 2 to 3 months the Outback was ditched as our airport car. The Subaru isn't anywhere near the Audi in any metric sans the reliablity/appliance factor of a Subaru.
By the way our OB XT has been at the Subaru dealership for three weeks on a discovery to source the cause of a drive train vibration... **** happens. 7yrs old/74K miles. If you're a Subi OB XT owner have look. www.legacygt.com Search for Bilstein BTS 5056 kit. It turns the OB into a poor mans Audi S4 Avant... Now if there was only a brake enhancement..
As an aside, I would have to source a Bilstein BTS suspension kit available only in Japan to sort out the crummy suspension in the OB XT. FK,,,ing Subaru & KYB their OEM.

Don't get me wrong,,, the UrS6 was no reliability savant.... Ya put your money down and takes yer chances.

Mister C

+1 Audi. I'm also a big fan.

And, yes, they are a gateway drug. Nancy Reagan even said so.

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...eway-drug.html

MielsOnWheels

I'll agree with you on the Subie comments - an appliance at best. It was the "best of the worst" choices I had on the 'ol company car selector website - the others were a Ford Taurus, Camry Hybrid, Chrysler 300 and Jeep Liberty. I was turning in a Dodge Caravan that was possbily one of the worst vehicles I've ever driven - underbraked, poorly engineered, bad on gas. I did like the 3rd row though and I narrowed the choice to the Liberty and Subie to come close to the cargo capacity of the van (Caravan was not a choice anymore). I went and drove the Liberty and felt the need to amend my "worst vehicle ever driven" title - it was even more poorly engineered, felt borderline unsafe with horrendous chassis dynamics, and the motor sounded like a Forest Service Jeep Cherokee from 1984. I went and drove the Subie, and while it is woefully underpowered, I liked the AWD, it was comfortable and got good MPG.. I've had it less than a year and its got 30k on it - mechanically its solid, but the interior looks shabbier than my 8 yr old Audi and 14 yr old Porsche - by a significant degree. Having said all this - I appreciate the free car!

nile13

Ummm... drive some Alfas. Compared to them Audi is a stainless refrigerator on wheels. A refrigerator with broken pixels and failing coils, leaking oil, etc (no, I'm not comparing it to Italian "reliability", I'm just saying). Subaru is a refrigerator without the maladies described above, but in vanilla white color.

What am I saying? German cars are giant compromises. Just like all other cars. German ones tend to lean towards better durability, handling (not Audi), dealing with adverse weather (they don't seem to slow down for moisture on Autobahn in my experience. Which is sad), excellent brakes, etc. They also have the littlest clue about ergonomics, reliability and a number of other important factors in _owning_ a car, especially in the land of no public transportation alternatives we live in.

speedbump2

There Is No Substitute For German Automotive Engineering.
All of the others are just wannabe's

--Chuck--

MielsOnWheels

Mike,

I haven't driven an Alfa, so I can't comment on the comparison. With respect, I was simply commenting on my experience with the Audi brand and how it compares to another German brand, Porsche, that I've recently had the good fortune to now experience as well. You;re exactly right that all cars are compromises - I'd lean on the German side of those compromises vs. the other (poor engineering, quality, dynamics, etc. As for handling...well, that big, heavy, 4.2 handles pretty well in my opinion (or course it's no P-car) especially for a car with so much motor ahead of the front axle, so I'd respectfully disagree with you on the handling, just my opinion. As for ergonomics and interior fit/finish, I'd respectfully again, disagree. I drove a new Cadillac CTS a few years ago (a 2010 probably) and the design, fit, finish, and ergonomics could not TOUCH the Audi's. And it was 6 years newer.

Just my opinion - great marques, both!

Michaelc

My wife and I have been thru a 1994 90, 1997 A4, 1999 A6, and a 2002 S6 Avant. None of these cars ever left us stranded. The 94 and the 99 nickel and dimed us to death, but all were wonderful cars. I've owned BMW's and other performance cars and the Audi's are IMHO the absolute best. On the other hand, you won't see me trading my 993 for a TT anytime soon.

nile13

I am not at all trying to discourage your love for Audi. As a matter of fact I'm looking at 2005 or so A8 as my adult car if I decide to buy one. And I do consider A6 2.7TT with a stick one of the better family cars out there (I spent 2003 working for Audi and had driven everything they made at that time extensively as well as older more classic cars and newer stuff in the past 7-8 years).

But. I am trying to put some balance in the perspective here. One part of that balance is that I do not consider German engineering to be superior. Nor particularly good. And I say it as a former engineer. I think that Japanese engineering is far superior in pretty much every respect.

I do think that German companies (BMW, specifically) make compromises that suit me in a car enough to own, what, 7 of them over the years? Audi has not swayed me yet with their compromises even though, as I've mentioned, A8 is next on the list. Benz holds no interest to me at all. VWs - no interest but for different reason (and, yes, I've owned a VR6 Corrado). Opels? Laughable. Trabant? Maybe, if I could get one and had a garage.

My own formula for the past 15 years had been to own one German and one Japanese car. Now that I don't have to drive to drive to work the Japanese car is slowly turning in non-street toy (which has more sole and capabilities than my 993 by miles).

BTW, on handling an ergonomics. I had many chances of driving 2003-2004 A6 with all three engines, 3.0, 2.7TT and 4.2. At the same time my personal car was an E30 and I logged a lot of time driving E39s, E34s and E32s, both mine, borrowed from friends and rentals in Germany. Every single BMW on that list handled so much better than every single Audi that it got me thinking about compromises back then. Clearly, Audi's strength is not handling. It's quality interiors and all-weather capabilities. Note, I say "quality", not "ergonomics". I still think that Japanese ergonomics are far, far ahead. But at least Audi is trying.

None of it really matters. Just my opinions, ramblings on a warm Sunday afternoon looking at boats go by and tourists getting ready to live. I look down at the parking lot by my building. 2/3rds of the cars are German. Go figure. The only thing that matters is the compromises we chose to live with. My own Speed Yellow compromise is sitting nearby, small and cramped, antiquated by today standards and useless as a daily driver to anyone but me, it seems. 17 year old car next to 180 year old wharf building surrounded by sail boats. How archaic. And that's OK.

M. Schneider

My MY95.5 UrS Avant enjoyed a Euro Bilstein/Eibach lowered street tuned suspension specifically for the wagon. The notorious Audi understeer was minimized as much as could be expected with a suspension tweek, however understeer ruled the day. I'd get in and out of a 3-series coupe during the Audi ownership,,,, nothing could have been more night N day...

Conversely - the S6 was the Uber ski wagon taking on the high altitude 100mi Denver to Vail hwy trek with ease; the RS2 manifold/turbo/exhaust didn't hurt.

Jetzeus

Blessed to have an '05.5 S4 along with the 993...both incredible cars!

HFDesignworks

Previous car was an Audi TT (1st gen). Great car, lots of fun as a daily driver and track toy. After modifying the hell out of it I realized it could still only take me so far on the track. Then I drove a 993 and while six years older, it made the TT seem like a VW by comparison. Sold the TT, bought the 993 and couldn't be happier. As for Subaru, we have had three. First one was great. Last two had terrible reliability including the awful head gasket issue that Subaru should really make a recall issue of. It will be a while before I look at a Subaru again as a result.

Quadcammer

pretty much. I've owned 2 audis, and while they were fine, they were hardly anything special. I've moved on and would only maybe consider an S8 or R8