palmfish

I originally posted this in the General Forum but apparently people don't visit there. Copying here because this is where I want to be...

After many years of BMW ownership, I've decided to jump ship and join the Porsche fray.

My first BMW was a 1987 (E30) 325is, which I dearly loved. This was a car that was easy to drive with terrific balance and feedback, easy to work on, and built like a tank. It was also a great car for learning high performance driving with it's forgiving handling and manageable power. Since it had a decent back seat and trunk, it was also a fine 2nd family car for when my wife was at work and I was home with the kids.

I stuck with this philosophy for many years, though I traded the 325is for a fully restored 2.5L 1988 E30 M3. Although I have always wanted a 911 and knew I would eventually own one, the M3 was the best choice at the time because it was a significant performance upgrade over the 325, while still retaining the positive virtues (balance, fun, back seat, etc.).

Well fast forward to Feb. 4, 2012 and my brother paid me a surprise visit while on military leave. Of course he had to take my M3 for a spin after hearing all about it for several years. I think you know where this is headed - he spun it into a ditch. I warned him about it, but he was still surprised by 240hp in a 2700 lb car with no safety nannies. Fortunately, nobody was injured, but the frame was bent and insurance declared it a total loss.

I battled with my insurance for over a month negotiating a settlement and finally reached an agreement with them. I could have bought the salvage and put it back together, but I knew it just would never be the same to me again. Instead, I let a good friend who owns a shop nearby buy the salvage - he's always loved the car and he has the energy and means to bring it back to it's former glory. Me? After the insurance battle and driving my mom's minivan for a month, I just feel defeated.

On the bright side, I see this as the opportunity to leave the backseat and trunk behind and finally try on a 911. My daughter starts driving next month and I've already picked up an inexpensive car for her (a BMW E30 318i, manual of course), so with that move, I could even get a 2-seater if I really want. And there's my problem - indecision.

My heart is telling me to find a nice 993 C2. I've always loved them and I believe the driving experience will be more pure. I've driven 997's and find them a little on the boring side (for lack of a better term). Don't get me wrong, I love the car and thought it was terrific, just a little bit too comfortable and easy to drive. Maybe this is me coming from my M3, but I don't know. Part of me likes the idea of having a more modern car with more comfort and better reliability(?) and I've also read that the 993 is not exactly a lightweight nimble car either. A 993 would be less expensive, which is a factor too.

On the other hand, maybe the best of both worlds is a Cayman S? It would be newer like the 997 but lighter and better balanced. Since I don't need a backseat, do I really need a 911? But since I've always loved the 911, will I look at the Cayman and think I should have gotten the 911? Again, I don't know. Also, I've read some anecdotal comments saying that the Cayman isn't screwed together as well as the 911 - poorer build, rattles, interior panels, etc.

Then there is the IMS issue. I realize it's primarily an M96 problem, but I'm thinking it may still be a consideration with any 997 or Cayman S older than around 2007 or 2008. I know there's lot of info out there on this topic, but as you all must know, it isn't definitive.

So, I guess I just wanted to introduce myself, tell my story, and ask for thoughts on where I'm headed.

v/r

ehanauer

The 2009 engines were the first of the water cooled flat sixes without IMS.

I traded a 2006 Boxster for a 1995 C4 coupe. Love it.

palmfish

2009 are the DI engines, right?

Didn't Porsche institute IMS bearing upgrades before 2009?

ehanauer

There were upgrades to the bearings, but in 2009 they eliminated the intermediate main shaft.

Stealth 993

Same kind of story here, came from a very, very well built E30 M3 with just over 300hp, & 2750lbs with my in it. I'll tell you the M3 was faster, but not as stable as the 993. I sold my M3, waited for the right 993 to appear, & it did, my beautiful C4S. Just like the M3, you will want to drive it all the time. I did about 6kmi in a couple of months. It is a car that will be in garage for many, many years!

I tried to fall in love with the Caymans. But they are just to refined, to smooth, & honestly, not a 911. They are a deal to pick up used, but unless you get a brand new one, they are not as fast as the 993. They lack the fit/finish & feel.

The 993 is so much like the M3, it has soul, has history, even non Porsche people like them. You got to know how to drive to get everything out of them. The power curve is almost S14 like, you got to rev it up to get the most from it.

Sad part about Porsches is there are so many options, that no 2 are alike. Some cars are base & others have leather covered dash vents & gauges. It real does run the gambit. There also some some sad (ugly) color combo's. If you do find what you want, JUMP on it. I've also noticed they all dive/feel a little different. This goes for the 993 & even the new ones.

If you find one & need help don't be afraid to ask, there are a bunch of us locally, & we are fairly tight like the E30 community. Join up for PNW993's you will be with a good bunch of local car guys!

EMBPilot

Welcome aboard.
The cayman is one sexy car, but if your gonna do it, do it right and get a 993 :-)

I left my 2011 328xi to get into my 95 C2 and I'd never even think about looking back. There's no comparison. Stealth is hit the nail on the head, the car has soul.

Good luck in you're search, that's half the fun!

abiazis

Porsche basically had a 10 year problem......... they dicked around with, by replacing engines, upgrading RMS seals, using double rowed bearing instead of one row bearing in early years, etc....avoiding the real issue of the ticking time bomb engine....

Those M96 cars all need the upgraded LN Engineered bearing for peace of mind.........$ 1500 job......

I traded my 2003 after 3 IMS seals and 3 RMS seals replaced.......didn't do upgraded bearing and traded the car....

Finally they redesigned the engine to eliminate the IMS design in the M96, took their time though.......

The turbos and GT cars, i.e. without M96, do not have the issue......and previous Porsches with IMS that were designed correctly, i.e. 993.......

I tell anyone interested in a M96 996/997 to avoid them..........unless upgrade to bearing was done and still not with confidence..........

palmfish

Yes! I knew this was the right forum for me, thank you all for the responses. I feel clearer about the IMS issue and basically what I've suspected all along - that a newer Porsche won't please me as much as a 993.

I'm glad to hear that there's a club nearby Stealth - I'll definitely be in touch.

One discouraging thing is the lack of 993's on the market. And what's with all the cabriolets on the market? I didn't think Porsche sold so many.

I'm really hoping I find a good one though, so I'll search for as long as it takes.

ABCar

Had a Cayman S...well modified and dialed in...still prefer my 993 a thousand times over that car.
Also had a 996 turbo...also, the 993 is a far more soulful and engaging car.

Good luck on your search...there is a Porsche for everyone and preferences vary. Drive all the different models that you are considering and find what works best for you.

TravisB

Welcome aboard! I hear ya on the market thing...I causally looked for over a year, last fall when one popped up locally and was actually in my target price range I snapped it up immediately!

MarkD

welcome and good luck!

the m96 issue is overcome with the LN kit
the 05-on m96 may be ok but the jury is still out
however, nothing beats the Mezger engine, IMO

993 body design FTW

tanger

The search is half the fun!

palmfish

Fun and scary. I know BMW's inside and out, but I've never been below the surface of a Porsche. I know the basics and maybe a little more, but not their ins and outs. I feel out of my element. Exciting, yes, but I'm scared of a making an expensive mistake.

I'm probably stressing over nothing. Yes, the 993's are getting on in years, but most are still comfortably below 100K miles. Babies compared to the BMW's I've owned.

These Porsches are well engineered and built cars. If a 993 is well maintained and hasn't been in an accident, it's probably good to go, right?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

The key aspect in choosing a 993 is having a very thorough PPI done BEFORE you make an offer on a prospective car. This helps you contain any risk and factor the final offer on what a car needs to be reliable.

A 993 will be much more reliable and durable than any of the water-cooled cars over the long run.

JM993

If anyone is curious with the Palmfish's M3 looked like pre accident, see the attached pics. I restored that car several years ago and upgraded it to EVOIII spec. Sad to hear it is no more.

Both the Cayman and the 993 are superior to an E30 M3 in every way (save passenger space). You'll do well with either one. I'm not sure where you read that a 993 is not nimble, but the writer obviously had his head up his a#s.

I've owned my 993 for 14 years and it has been extremely reliable. However, if you choose a 993, be prepared to either pay for maintenance or learn to work on the car yourself. The newest are now at least 14 years old and the service intervals on the 993 are shorter. Most service work on the 993 (and Cayman) must be performed from underneath the car. I wouldn't worry about IMS failures on an M97 engined cars like the Cayman. Failures are are almost unheard of with the M97.

Good luck with your search.

One more thing: whatever you choose, don't let your brother near it.