ilko

Somebody needs chaste tree berry pills... There is proof that they'll help!

racer

You mentioned that this started in the 997 thread... lets be honest, those motors (except GT3/TT) are NOT designed to be driven hard. The aircooled motors, yes. Yes they wear, but I think the reputation of how durable they aircooled motors are is what people get at.

944s loose belts or oil pick up and the motor dies. Same with 928s.

911 motors, due to true drysumping and seemingly "overbuilt" qualities seem to stand up well to the rigors of track use. The aircooled cars I see "broken" at the track are due to mis shifts or shunts off the track, not motor failure.

The watercooled cars I see broken at the track are more often from inherent design issues.

C2Cab95

No... it's not like it's talking to me saying "Michael, I desire to rev up to 7,000 RPM, it feels soooo good!" She's German, I couldn't understand her anyway.

It's the feeling behind the seat, the mechanical sounds that speak to me and say "lets do it!"

timothymoffat

After an oil chabge last spring, my 97 coupe required 1 litre of oil after 1485 KM (hope that's accurate enough) of driving. Driving done in a city environment of stop and go traffic. The car is always driven for at least an hour on trips of at least 35kms (22 miles approx). No full throttle and no more than 5000 rpm unfortunately. This is why I hate city driving.

I already posted above that during a week long 4000KM+ driving fest last August, the car burned, AT THE MOST, 1/2 litre of oil. I say at the most because I think I may have evr so slightly over-filled it at the end of the trip.

As to questioning how "hard" said driving was and for how long, I already said that the 1st 1000KM (621 miles if that's close enough) of said drive was VERY hard. LOTS of full-throttle, many trips to the redline, and sustained high RPM of 4000 rpm or more.

EDIT: Just to clarify, all of the above was performed in my 1997 993 C2 that had 124500KM (I know, not very accurate) in April of 2010 and currently has 131300(ish) KMs now, just as it has since last driven in early November.

Makmov

like a lack of a true dry sump on most of the Water Closet cars.

trophy

Wow, who crapped in your cereal this morning.......

AS many have said, show us the evidence that it is worse for the engine to be revved vs lugged and we can have a meaningful, intelligent debate in the subject. Shouting out requests for proof without providing any yourself is not getting this thread (and the 997 thread) anywhere.

I have no proof, but as soon as I get out of winter, I will work on some form of testing procedure. What I need from you is your car sent to me, and provide another one that is exactly the same (age, miles, driven style, climate etc) and I will drive one hard and one easy, I will measure oil consumption, performance data and anything else you wish to track. I will have oil analysis done by blackstone and then in 12 months time we can strip down both engines and start measuring and x-raying.

What do you think? you want measurable repeatable data, this would get it for you...... When can I expect delivery of the test subjects?

Makmov

weird....

Akerlie

Looks like the guys in the Cup forum are ovehauling their engines every 100 hours or so, my guess after having read i come to the conclusion that is that racing is bad for you engine

My engine has run for approx. 2500 hours (40 km/h / 100 000 km) and burns 1l pr 1500km.

Dplus

"In my view, the cars were designed to be driven (on the street, with occasional track use) at a varying level of throttle load and rpm."

The 993 Promotional Video from Porsche states,

"The engineer that works on these cars knows when he goes to work in the morning that the car he is working will undoubtedly be driven absolutly as fast as it will go for the entire duratin of a tank of gas."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guDH-...eature=related

Just saying.

Maybe he only meant ONE tank of gas and all the other tank fulls are for putting around town???

The video doesn't say that NOT driving "absolutly as fast as it will go" will be detrimental to the engine. But what fun is that?

Please don't rip me too bad (Quadcammer scares me)

Darell

matt777

I'm sick of people saying they are right unless someone on the forum has run lab research or reliability studies with contradictory results. It is a belligerent argument. We may be Porsche fans but have day jobs in other lines of work. Just saying.

jscott82

Cars are like women.. Neither one likes to be pounded on relentlessly from the get go.. But picking up the pace at the opportune time can make for a fun time for all involved....

Take for instance the 996 cup, essentially the same engine as a GT3. GT3 will go for 100k miles, if not more before a rebuild… Porsche motorsports recommends rebuild at 30 hours on a professionally driven cup engine. Not because the engine is different, but because of the conditions it is run in. The 993 is no different. Yes it has some race tweaks, like dry sump oiling that help it survive race conditions better… but in the end driving hard will shorten its life…

Just my two cents.. please carry on with the bashing….

cabrio993

I just don't get the PROOF deal...

Dude, It's you car, you are free to drive it any which way you want. I'll be driving mine the way I like. We'll talk in 10 years and compare notes.

timothymoffat

Couln't agree more Matt.

We all have our ideas and these ideas quite reugularly conflict with those of others. Having friendly, respectful discussions on those topics can be educational and entertaining. When the mud slinging starts it takes the enjoyment out of it. Pretty sure most of us here don't hang onto 13+ year old cars for many more reasons than enjoying them.

trophy

Are you saying I should stop pounding my wife relentlessly

Porsche's recommendation is also based on maintaining the performance that they advertise and when teams are looking to maintain every last HP then they will be rebuilding them often. Also many of these race engines run without air filters (993 RSR;s commonly ran without) This causes additional wear, with nothing to do with how hard it is worked.

I think lugging these is worse than revving them, I think racing them is a whole other ball game.

I know my car has 55k miles, 35-40k on the track, regular oil changes, and uses far less than 1qt per 3000 miles. It is also showing the same HP to the wheels as it did 5 years ago (on the same dyno, similar conditions) and in that time I have put on a ton of track miles. And Matt777 will attest i don't take it easy on my car

Makmov

+1