Trader220

I have driven a lot of miles in all three Pana models and the car is a blast. I drove em on the track vs. 8 of the closest competition and perfomance wise none of them touched it. The M5 was lame with the SMG junk box, the Maserati Q was a joke, under powered and so much body roll you were all over the place. The 750il was excellent and a could almost run with the Pana. I have been driving a CLS AMG and yea its fast but only in a straight line, the chassis and brakes are over powered by the motor and there is zippo back seat room.

In order to survive Porsche has had to roll with the times and despite my love of the classic air cooled Porsches the 997 does everything any of my air cooleds did and it does it faster, and easier. No I dont own a 997 but have logged 1000's of miles in em, and yea I do own a couple of air cooled 911's.

brucec59

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pcar964

It's sad to see people try to defend the Panamera by stating how well it performs relative to the competition. They are absolutely missing the point. I could take $5000 and make a honda accord outperform a panamera on the track, that doesn't make it a sportscar.

Trader220

Its sad to see people missing the total point of the Panamera and what it means to the future of the company. Its sad to see people bashing the car without spending any time in it and comparing it to its natural competitors. Its really sad to see people believe that the Pana is some how supposed to only fit their idea of what a Porsche should be, and thus write it off.

ltc

The Panamera was the last chess piece in the evil Dr W.'s game called his "10 year plan"...nothing more, nothing less.

The Cayenne was claimed to be "necessary in order to preserve the future of the 911". Ironic that in today's "new" economic reality and plummeting Porsche sales (yes, the company that a year ago was the most profitable car company on the planet...you know, the one that is now a division of VW), the Cayenne is the sales leader.

The same can not be said for the Panamera. It is simply the bastard offspring of the Cayenne, an albatross, which can not be killed...it will be allowed to run its course, good or bad, profits or not. The only certainty is that it WILL end...the question is 'sooner' or 'later'.

In the end, Porsche didn't remain independent, Dr W. never did achieve his goal of 100K cars/year (at any cost), Marketing ran the company and the targeted demographic was anything but the existing Porsche owner, the future of the 911 is not guaranteed (not in its current form).....

A while back, I was able to see all of this developing, some cars years before they were made public...I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

goofballdeluxe

FYI Porsche sold just about 100K cars last year (96,482). Also, they are scheduling 150K units targeted for 2012.

goofballdeluxe

You have a point, and my problem with the Panamera is a little about the blasphemy of this car (and also the SUV) and how it's diluted the brand, goes against it's heritage blah blah blah.

But my big gripe about this car is about what you speak of. OK, compared to it's rivals, according to you, the BMW 750 just about keeps up with the Panamera. And the BMW is how much less? And looks how much better? Lots and lots.

Anyone who cares about the fact that the Panamera may outperform those other cars at 9/10ths on a race track bought the wrong kind of car. This car and it's rivals are not track appliances. What counts in this class of cars, and where 99.9% will spend their time, is city/highway driving in high style and comfort. All the cars in this class have enough power, handling and quality workmanship to accomplish that goal.

In my opinion, the best car is the one that has the performance, looks and price to match. My problem with the Panamera is it fails spectacularly on two of these points.

Wilder

Four door Porsche and performance discussions aside...

It's amazing that a new American car company can design a car that looks like this...



And this is the best that Porsche can do.

Trader220

I respect your opinion but its not just on the track, there is a big segment out there looking for a high performance sedan. The BMW was not exactly close on the track but compared to the others, CLS, S Class, Maserati Q, M5, A8, etc etc the Pana out performs all of them in everyday driving too. You make a good point that most if not all will not care about the track but when you sit in a Pana you realize how far superior the cockpit and the dynamics of the car is over those others. I agree its more expensive but then again a Porsche always is. Now to be fair those others have been out for a year or more so they dont have the latest in electronics and materials.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, where I agee that when not properly optioned the Pana can look odd, but we have a carbon gray one here on the floor with 20's and air suspension and lots of other goodies and its a stunning car.

Look, I really love the air cooled cars, I am a child of the 70's and 80's and my first drive in a 911 was back in 82, I worked for a doctor who had an 82 targa in BRG with tan and I drove that car all summer, and was hooked. Since then I have owned well over 20 911's each one being an air cooled model. On the other hand I do realize that the world has changed and the company has had to change with it to survive.

M491

It means absolutely nothing to the future of the company.

The nameplate is never going away, as a brand it has too much value. They can, and will, remain a division of VW (or some other large company) forever. Panamera or not.

Trader220

I am glad you know the business plan and the future plans of the company. I am sure you know exactly what they want their product mix to be in the future. I am sure all the demographic studies you've done on the global population and the vast expereince you have in the global automotive business and working with Porsche's management has helped you come to that conclusion.

I guess there is no way the Principle families would ever be able to take the company private again since you're on the inside there I guess you know their plans.

Wilder

Hmmmm. Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

If you're alluding to the fact that you're an insider and that you have knowledge about the future plans of the company related to product mix, target market, corporate structure plans and any other information from your experience in dealing with Porsche management, it would be greatly appreciated if you could please share that information with the forum rather than make disdainful remarks toward others.

Slow Guy

I thought Porsche was the most profitable per vehicle manufactured and not overall profit (not talking about the hedge fund like financial shenanigans)?

Trader220

Louis,
Yes I was being sarcastic, and no I am presenting myself as any sort of insider. My comments were directed at m491 who seemed to know for sure that Porsche would always be a division of VW. Also towards the others who are sure the Pana is no good and wrong for the company. Those kinds of statements give the impression that some others here know what’s best and what’s coming for Porsche.

bgiere

Cue the old grumpy guy voice..." The 356 was the last real Porsche ever made..that new 911 will be the downfall of the company".....

If i could afford to get one you can be sure i'd have a Panamera!