turn key...dead
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Indy, IN USA
turn key...dead
...no fuel pump prime, no starter. Otherwise, electrical seems normal. No blown fuses, relays appear normal (without exhaustive diagnosis, yet). I was backing into garage after a fan belt break-in run. Neighbor dog ran behind me and I killed the engine. Cycled the ignition key...heard a "tick"...no starter. Cycled the alarm system...nothing. No fuel pump, no solenoid ticking, nothing.
Recent work: new alternator. Went in perfectly, no issues, nothing. Battery was swapped after mistakenly leaving dome light on during alt. replacement (tried to keep DME energized after extracting old fan assembly).
Other symptoms: over the past 6 months, I've had the dreaded "appearance" of vapor lock...restart on hot engine resulted in starter not meshing, spinning sound. This is a '97 993 w/ varioram and all the modern goodies...it should NOT be vapor lock. Suspected that the starter solenoid was acting up or the positive lead to solenoid was shearing off again.
I've gone ahead and ordered a replacement starter. I'm nearing the 100k mile mark so it's due, regardless. But that's a tough job only to learn that it isn't the root cause. The DME relay wouldn't impede the starter, so I don't think that's it. The starter relay seems fine, but that shouldn't impede the fuel pump. Other systems that crossed my mind include the immobilizer (*shudder* don't want to relive that nightmare), but it was completely replaced last year. Is there an outboard fuse somewhere that could be blown due to a shorted starter solenoid?
Thanks in advance!
Recent work: new alternator. Went in perfectly, no issues, nothing. Battery was swapped after mistakenly leaving dome light on during alt. replacement (tried to keep DME energized after extracting old fan assembly).
Other symptoms: over the past 6 months, I've had the dreaded "appearance" of vapor lock...restart on hot engine resulted in starter not meshing, spinning sound. This is a '97 993 w/ varioram and all the modern goodies...it should NOT be vapor lock. Suspected that the starter solenoid was acting up or the positive lead to solenoid was shearing off again.
I've gone ahead and ordered a replacement starter. I'm nearing the 100k mile mark so it's due, regardless. But that's a tough job only to learn that it isn't the root cause. The DME relay wouldn't impede the starter, so I don't think that's it. The starter relay seems fine, but that shouldn't impede the fuel pump. Other systems that crossed my mind include the immobilizer (*shudder* don't want to relive that nightmare), but it was completely replaced last year. Is there an outboard fuse somewhere that could be blown due to a shorted starter solenoid?
Thanks in advance!
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From: Winston-Salem, NC
When you try to start it, you hear a "click" but do the interior lights go dim? If so, I agree with my collegue above...RIP, battery. You may well have a drain like glove compartment, trunk or engine compartment light staying on.
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From: Indy, IN USA
Good idea, but that was where I went first. Swapped battery with a spare and even left the charger on it...nothing. The "click" only occurred once when the engine died. Now there is no life from the fuel pump or starter. The dome lights don't dim, head lights seem at normal level.
Changing starter now. That top bolt is a biach!
Changing starter now. That top bolt is a biach!
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Indy, IN USA
Well crap. I'm down to guessing now. The DME relay could still be bad even though it tested ok. The new starter seems fine too. *sigh*
Bart, how do you like your Sumitomos? Did you have the II's before the III's?
Bart, how do you like your Sumitomos? Did you have the II's before the III's?
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Race Car
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,599
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From: Alabama
IIIs are great. I didn't have the IIs and haven't had these long, but I had a nice wet track day on them and they didn't slow me down any. I locked up a PS front twice, but I think the ABS sensor may need cleaned.
Keep following my immobilizer saga. It's got me twice so far and is always in the back of my mind. And I have been driving Porsche for 8 years or so and have not yet needed my spare DME relay.
Keep following my immobilizer saga. It's got me twice so far and is always in the back of my mind. And I have been driving Porsche for 8 years or so and have not yet needed my spare DME relay.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,170
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From: Portugal
Just make sure your battery is strong.
I was driving around the other day, and the car stalled and wouldn't restart.
Radio worked, electric windows worked.
I switched out the DME (with on-board spare) but nothing. Turned out to be a weak battery - had the volts but not the amps to turn the engine over. (However - I did get the christmas tree lights on the dashboard, which it sounds like you do not have...)
Anyway, I switched the battery out, and it was fine.
Hope its something simple - I hear the immobilizer is a 'mare. Another reason I love my '95.
GL
Phil
I was driving around the other day, and the car stalled and wouldn't restart.
Radio worked, electric windows worked.
I switched out the DME (with on-board spare) but nothing. Turned out to be a weak battery - had the volts but not the amps to turn the engine over. (However - I did get the christmas tree lights on the dashboard, which it sounds like you do not have...)
Anyway, I switched the battery out, and it was fine.
Hope its something simple - I hear the immobilizer is a 'mare. Another reason I love my '95.
GL
Phil
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From: FF county, Connecticut
Tip or 6 speed ?
The clutch all the way down? perhaps problem with the clutch switch ? TIP: try move the shifter in and out of Park (with the key in run-position 1st of course)
I would only change the starter ONLY if power is getting to the starter.
The clutch all the way down? perhaps problem with the clutch switch ? TIP: try move the shifter in and out of Park (with the key in run-position 1st of course)
I would only change the starter ONLY if power is getting to the starter.
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From: Indy, IN USA
It's a 6-speed tranny. The starter was indeed getting 13.xV, so I opted to change the starter. Still won't energize. Replaced the DME relay, still no fuel pump prime much less starter kick-over. The starter ground strap was checked during the install. No blown fuses in the main box under the bonnet.
The immobilizer does not appear to be confused or unhappy (dash light comes on when it should and no flashing). Alarm arms and disarms normally, as do the door locks. I had the battery stress tested at Sears and it came out perfectly. The ignition switch was replaced last year (electronic part, that is) so I doubt that has failed.
What else would impact the fuel pump and starter if it failed? My instant response is the immobilizer, but it's brand-freakin-new (ok, a year old) and there are no other symptoms leading to it. I'm considering an exorcist.
Is it just me or are only guys with black 993's posting here??!!
The immobilizer does not appear to be confused or unhappy (dash light comes on when it should and no flashing). Alarm arms and disarms normally, as do the door locks. I had the battery stress tested at Sears and it came out perfectly. The ignition switch was replaced last year (electronic part, that is) so I doubt that has failed.
What else would impact the fuel pump and starter if it failed? My instant response is the immobilizer, but it's brand-freakin-new (ok, a year old) and there are no other symptoms leading to it. I'm considering an exorcist.
Is it just me or are only guys with black 993's posting here??!!
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Not much to contribute here, but had a similar problem yesterday morning. Drove the car a week ago with no problems, but tried to start it up yesterday and got nothing. Couldn't find a battery drain cause, but gave the battery a boost and got it running. Took the car out for a spirited run, stopping a couple of times, and had no problems and was able to re-start.
No idea why the battery died (only a one year old battery), so watching this space closely to see if there are other things that people are checking to address similar symptoms.
Mine's black too, so maybe there is something to the Black 993 battery curse right now. :-)
No idea why the battery died (only a one year old battery), so watching this space closely to see if there are other things that people are checking to address similar symptoms.
Mine's black too, so maybe there is something to the Black 993 battery curse right now. :-)
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From: Indy, IN USA
Finally, some progress! After fixing broken/removed parts that my local dealer "harvested" from last year's immobilizer work (don't ask, touchy subject), I was able to remove the passenger seat to check the immobilizer fuse. It's fine. Still no start. So I jumpered the starter relay and it started!
Now comes the interesting stuff...why? I'm buying replacement relays as I type, but I already replaced the starter relay with a thought-to-be-functional spare. And if the new relay doesn't produce results, then what's next, the immobilizer? The only other system that I know of that can impede the starter is the security system. Does jumping the relay put the system into an "emergency mode" that will expire after some unknown time? I need to use the car but am a little worried about straying far from home yet. Anyone have experience or knowledge of immobilizer control of the starter?
Now comes the interesting stuff...why? I'm buying replacement relays as I type, but I already replaced the starter relay with a thought-to-be-functional spare. And if the new relay doesn't produce results, then what's next, the immobilizer? The only other system that I know of that can impede the starter is the security system. Does jumping the relay put the system into an "emergency mode" that will expire after some unknown time? I need to use the car but am a little worried about straying far from home yet. Anyone have experience or knowledge of immobilizer control of the starter?
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From: Winston-Salem, NC
Guarded congratulations! IMHO, I wouldn't read too much into it other than a supposedly good component that was, in fact, bad. When you get your new relay/s, build up confidence by taking short drives from your garage and back to prove the hypothesis.