Now I did it!
04-30-2009, 02:04 AM
#76
Rennlist Member
hey kie...for $22,500 my car was and is an excellent buy...i disclosed all issues that i was aware of.....the way i drive i never had any issues with clutch or tranny..never had a hard time releasing it from 3rd gear as buyer stated..
you drove my car about a week after it was in the hands of your new friend (buyer) who's never owned a porsche before and redlined/shifted the car very hard while on our test drives...i even told him that i don't redline the car, EVER....i'm a mellow driver and i don't take the car to it's limits....
lets see....1.5 weeks after ownership buyer thinks clutch or tranny is supposedly bad.... buyer takes car to john walker porsche and clutch/tranny are fine.
3 weeks to 4 weeks after ownership buyer thinks frame is bent and wants to sell the car but takes car to(i assume truline)frame shop to have it checked out and the frame is fine with never any damage...
seinfeld isn't this good...
you drove my car about a week after it was in the hands of your new friend (buyer) who's never owned a porsche before and redlined/shifted the car very hard while on our test drives...i even told him that i don't redline the car, EVER....i'm a mellow driver and i don't take the car to it's limits....
lets see....1.5 weeks after ownership buyer thinks clutch or tranny is supposedly bad.... buyer takes car to john walker porsche and clutch/tranny are fine.
3 weeks to 4 weeks after ownership buyer thinks frame is bent and wants to sell the car but takes car to(i assume truline)frame shop to have it checked out and the frame is fine with never any damage...
seinfeld isn't this good...
Last edited by groovzilla; 04-30-2009 at 03:17 AM.
04-30-2009, 02:36 AM
#77
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fwiw, IB has dumped two big sponsors on MBWorld due to several long complaint threads (on the AMG forums.) Apparently they do react if there's enough exposing of bad vendors by members. But I guess it's up to members to bring it to IB's attention; they certainly don't want to lose any sponsor income.
Thanks, Andreas for bringing this out. It's a good 'community responsibility' sort of thing to post this kind of stuff.
Thanks, Andreas for bringing this out. It's a good 'community responsibility' sort of thing to post this kind of stuff.
04-30-2009, 05:29 AM
#78
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Well I was just kidding around William, but since you are being serious, I will engage!
I would say your car was (just barely) fairly priced at $22.5k. An excellent buy? Do you really believe that? Do you stand behind your claims that your car looked and drove like new? That it was in "like new condition inside and out"? It is awesome that you disclosed whatever issues the car had that you were aware of. Which begs the question. Why would any car that looked and drove like new, that was in new condition inside and out, have any issues that need disclosing? I'm looking at your description in your "possibly for sale" thread and I see you mentioned it had a few rock chips and the front speakers needed replacing. Are those the issues you are referring to or were there others you did not feel were worth mentioning in your thread?
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-for-sale.html
The irony here is I agree completely in regards to your comments in post #68 of this thread. To paraphrase, I think your main points were (please correct me if I am wrong) that if a buyer is the recipient of a car part or car related item that is less than described, then the seller is a slime bag. Although you said "slim bag" I'm pretty sure you meant to say slime bag. You went on to say that these losers deserved the scrutiny (your term was "magnifying glass treatment") of the car enthusiast community and whatever consequences resulted from said public airing of dirty laundry.
Again, could not agree more with your views here. Another observation might be... "Magnifying glass, looking glass, whats the difference anyway?"
You are right about Seinfeld as well, he is not this good. He never had "new condition" 1995 993 C2 models for $22.5k, no sir. Thats your department!
In all seriousness, it has been said before that I take semantics a little too seriously. So try to take my musings/observations with grains of salt.
I would say your car was (just barely) fairly priced at $22.5k. An excellent buy? Do you really believe that? Do you stand behind your claims that your car looked and drove like new? That it was in "like new condition inside and out"? It is awesome that you disclosed whatever issues the car had that you were aware of. Which begs the question. Why would any car that looked and drove like new, that was in new condition inside and out, have any issues that need disclosing? I'm looking at your description in your "possibly for sale" thread and I see you mentioned it had a few rock chips and the front speakers needed replacing. Are those the issues you are referring to or were there others you did not feel were worth mentioning in your thread?
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-for-sale.html
The irony here is I agree completely in regards to your comments in post #68 of this thread. To paraphrase, I think your main points were (please correct me if I am wrong) that if a buyer is the recipient of a car part or car related item that is less than described, then the seller is a slime bag. Although you said "slim bag" I'm pretty sure you meant to say slime bag. You went on to say that these losers deserved the scrutiny (your term was "magnifying glass treatment") of the car enthusiast community and whatever consequences resulted from said public airing of dirty laundry.
Again, could not agree more with your views here. Another observation might be... "Magnifying glass, looking glass, whats the difference anyway?"
You are right about Seinfeld as well, he is not this good. He never had "new condition" 1995 993 C2 models for $22.5k, no sir. Thats your department!
In all seriousness, it has been said before that I take semantics a little too seriously. So try to take my musings/observations with grains of salt.
hey kie...for $22,500 my car was and is an excellent buy...i disclosed all issues that i was aware of.....the way i drive i never had any issues with clutch or tranny..never had a hard time releasing it from 3rd gear as buyer stated..
you drove my car about a week after it was in the hands of your new friend (buyer) who's never owned a porsche before and redlined/shifted the car very hard while on our test drives...i even told him that i don't redline the car, EVER....i'm a mellow driver and i don't take the car to it's limits....
lets see....1.5 weeks after ownership buyer thinks clutch or tranny is supposedly bad.... buyer takes car to john walker porsche and clutch/tranny are fine.
3 weeks to 4 weeks after ownership buyer thinks frame is bent and wants to sell the car but takes car to(i assume truline)frame shop to have it checked out and the frame is fine with never any damage...
seinfeld isn't this good...
you drove my car about a week after it was in the hands of your new friend (buyer) who's never owned a porsche before and redlined/shifted the car very hard while on our test drives...i even told him that i don't redline the car, EVER....i'm a mellow driver and i don't take the car to it's limits....
lets see....1.5 weeks after ownership buyer thinks clutch or tranny is supposedly bad.... buyer takes car to john walker porsche and clutch/tranny are fine.
3 weeks to 4 weeks after ownership buyer thinks frame is bent and wants to sell the car but takes car to(i assume truline)frame shop to have it checked out and the frame is fine with never any damage...
seinfeld isn't this good...
..
04-30-2009, 11:04 AM
#84
Rennlist Member
04-30-2009, 12:23 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
damn i've got to proof read!
kie, i didn't take your comments as kidding around....my reputation is important to me.
its not a joke when the buyer of your car (your new friend) emails the seller(me) a week later complaining about the clutch and transmission having problems and then 3 weeks after the purchase he emails about the frame being bent with no other comunication even after he takes car to pro to check out and car is fine.
i think its strange peculiar behavior so i didn't take your comment as a joke......perhaps you should discuss with your new friend before going public?
my car was an excellent example compared to anything else i saw or drove with 100K miles...thats why i bought it.
when i sold my 993 it did look "like" new a dove "like new"....i never stated it was new....my car wasn't sold sight unseen... after spending an hour driving and looking over the car the new buyer could have walked if it was not to their liking.
prior to the sale, i asked all 3 rennlister's who looked and drove my car(including the new owner)if i described the car to their satisfaction and all 3 were pleased....
it wasn't till a week and then again 3 weeks later that i started getting ridiculous emails from the buyer(your new friend) regarding the clutch and bent frame paranoid statement...
bottom line is the buyer of my car spent plenty of time looking, driving and going over service records and it drove perfectly well for the hour he spent redlining and driving the car extremely hard prior to purchase.
lets move on
kie, i didn't take your comments as kidding around....my reputation is important to me.
its not a joke when the buyer of your car (your new friend) emails the seller(me) a week later complaining about the clutch and transmission having problems and then 3 weeks after the purchase he emails about the frame being bent with no other comunication even after he takes car to pro to check out and car is fine.
i think its strange peculiar behavior so i didn't take your comment as a joke......perhaps you should discuss with your new friend before going public?
my car was an excellent example compared to anything else i saw or drove with 100K miles...thats why i bought it.
when i sold my 993 it did look "like" new a dove "like new"....i never stated it was new....my car wasn't sold sight unseen... after spending an hour driving and looking over the car the new buyer could have walked if it was not to their liking.
prior to the sale, i asked all 3 rennlister's who looked and drove my car(including the new owner)if i described the car to their satisfaction and all 3 were pleased....
it wasn't till a week and then again 3 weeks later that i started getting ridiculous emails from the buyer(your new friend) regarding the clutch and bent frame paranoid statement...
bottom line is the buyer of my car spent plenty of time looking, driving and going over service records and it drove perfectly well for the hour he spent redlining and driving the car extremely hard prior to purchase.
lets move on
Last edited by groovzilla; 04-30-2009 at 01:37 PM.
04-30-2009, 12:47 PM
#87
Rennlist Member
Curiosity alone had me paging to the tail of this thread ... to see why it still had life: it really doesn't, but reading the attached made me glad to have taken the 'click'.
Well said .... and I must agree with the 'piling on' trait, as it both sidetracks and dilutes the poiniency of whatever issue had been tendered.
Well said .... and I must agree with the 'piling on' trait, as it both sidetracks and dilutes the poiniency of whatever issue had been tendered.
Hi Andreas,
Wow,..thats really disappointing, especially after his opening posts of contrition for past errors and his follow-up about an effort for a satisfactory resolution with you.
To date, I've never met a human being that hasn't made a mistake of some kind in their life, even people in business for themselves. I'd concur with Alan that oftentimes, it can be a genuine challenge to make everyone happy, however the most important aspect of such issues is HOW one deals with past errors and making sincere and serious efforts to make amends and retain your customer base.
Being an imperfect soul, I am always willing to give someone a second chance when one confesses and admits to their mistakes. IMHO, Mr. Gunn clearly should have called you on the telephone and asked what he could do for you to make amends well before it got to this point.
On a personal level, the only thing that distresses me is how quickly others "pile on" when they have not had a personal experience of their own. While these kinds of media makes it possible to inform the buying public of unscrupulous people, its the anonymous contributions that troubles me most. Clearly this does NOT apply to you, but one can say almost anything without repercussions on such forums.
I sincerely hope you find some resolution or satisfaction here as such vendor behaviour affects all of us who endeavor to serve the Porsche community in one form or another.
Wow,..thats really disappointing, especially after his opening posts of contrition for past errors and his follow-up about an effort for a satisfactory resolution with you.
To date, I've never met a human being that hasn't made a mistake of some kind in their life, even people in business for themselves.
I'd concur with Alan that oftentimes, it can be a genuine challenge to make everyone happy, however the most important aspect of such issues is HOW one deals with past errors and making sincere and serious efforts to make amends and retain your customer base. Being an imperfect soul, I am always willing to give someone a second chance when one confesses and admits to their mistakes. IMHO, Mr. Gunn clearly should have called you on the telephone and asked what he could do for you to make amends well before it got to this point.
On a personal level, the only thing that distresses me is how quickly others "pile on" when they have not had a personal experience of their own. While these kinds of media makes it possible to inform the buying public of unscrupulous people, its the anonymous contributions that troubles me most. Clearly this does NOT apply to you, but one can say almost anything without repercussions on such forums.
I sincerely hope you find some resolution or satisfaction here as such vendor behaviour affects all of us who endeavor to serve the Porsche community in one form or another.
04-30-2009, 04:29 PM
#88
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William yes I did refer to the buyer of your '95 993 as a friend, you are correct sir. He is a friend in the sense that I saw a new Rennlist member who happened to be local to me who was having concerns with his "like new" appearing and "like new" driving car. The quotes are there since the car was described as such by the seller. Anyway, I offered to let him drive my very similar car (although mine is not like new, either driving or looking) back to back with his so he could get some feedback. That was all happening in this thread where he was describing his new car and detailing some of his concerns:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...can-it-be.html
Curious, why do you refer to the person who handed you 22-large and change for your car just based only on his night time inspection and your description as "my friend"? Are you implying that he is not a friend of yours? If that is the case, why is that? One would hope that within this community that after a new Rennlist member got an "excellent buy" on a used 993 from another Rennlist member that they would be friends from that point forward. But clearly that is not the case here, so please, do tell!
Hey I'll stop mincing words. After I drove your old car I was shocked. The car that was described as driving "like new" pulled to the left like a clapped-out Geo Metro and was far worse under braking. The off-center steering wheel was another bonus. Depressing the clutch pedal felt like immersing your foot in semi-hardened concrete with a crunchy peanut butter coating. The gearshift had a mind of its own and was partial to some gears more than others. The suspension reminded me of my '87 Caddy Coupe deVille from my pimp-daddy days.
As I looked at the exterior, I was reminded of these words from another of your threads describing your car...
"...had the entire front end repainted to a perect match spending upwards of $5K to do so..."
A perfect match you say? Really? It makes one wonder why one of the fender/cowl gaskets looked like it had been put in the day before and the other looked like/had the texture of peanut brittle. Hmmm.
I see your previous 108k mile C4 that, in your words..."runs perfecty" and has "interior perfect...everything like new". So clearly William Ceriale only deals in 100k mile 993 models that run and look like new:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...s-ot-news.html
So as your buyer and I sat there and looked at our cars after driving/inspecting both, all sorts of thoughts went through my head. Mainly, I wondered how William might describe my car if it were his. His old car was described as "like new" and needed major $$$ just to get it close to being a safe car to drive. In comparison, my "pretty good" and "well maintained" '95 C2 with 92k felt like a thoroughbred racing car. And bear in mind that my car is nothing special, I imagine its like most any other Rennlist member enthusiast owned 993. So where would one go above "like new"? Would you have to invent new words? Perhaps you could say it still needs assembly since it is so much better than "like new" that it is still at the factory and has yet to be put together/assembled from all new-old-stock parts?
So yeah I'm kinda kidding around, but at the same time I'm not. If you actually believe that describing these former items of yours as "perfect" and "like new" driving and appearing is appropriate or even sorta true, well, you go brother. Whatever helps you sleep at night!
Its too bad that the new Rennlist member who paid your asking price for your car is not on your Christmas card list but oh well. Perhaps your reputation is not as important to you as you thought?
Oh by the way I would have never opened my fat mouth about any of this had I not seen you post in this thread and jump on the pig-pile about some other inter-web wrongdoer. I saw irony and could not help myself, sorry!
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...can-it-be.html
Curious, why do you refer to the person who handed you 22-large and change for your car just based only on his night time inspection and your description as "my friend"? Are you implying that he is not a friend of yours? If that is the case, why is that? One would hope that within this community that after a new Rennlist member got an "excellent buy" on a used 993 from another Rennlist member that they would be friends from that point forward. But clearly that is not the case here, so please, do tell!
Hey I'll stop mincing words. After I drove your old car I was shocked. The car that was described as driving "like new" pulled to the left like a clapped-out Geo Metro and was far worse under braking. The off-center steering wheel was another bonus. Depressing the clutch pedal felt like immersing your foot in semi-hardened concrete with a crunchy peanut butter coating. The gearshift had a mind of its own and was partial to some gears more than others. The suspension reminded me of my '87 Caddy Coupe deVille from my pimp-daddy days.
As I looked at the exterior, I was reminded of these words from another of your threads describing your car...
"...had the entire front end repainted to a perect match spending upwards of $5K to do so..."
A perfect match you say? Really? It makes one wonder why one of the fender/cowl gaskets looked like it had been put in the day before and the other looked like/had the texture of peanut brittle. Hmmm.
I see your previous 108k mile C4 that, in your words..."runs perfecty" and has "interior perfect...everything like new". So clearly William Ceriale only deals in 100k mile 993 models that run and look like new:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...s-ot-news.html
So as your buyer and I sat there and looked at our cars after driving/inspecting both, all sorts of thoughts went through my head. Mainly, I wondered how William might describe my car if it were his. His old car was described as "like new" and needed major $$$ just to get it close to being a safe car to drive. In comparison, my "pretty good" and "well maintained" '95 C2 with 92k felt like a thoroughbred racing car. And bear in mind that my car is nothing special, I imagine its like most any other Rennlist member enthusiast owned 993. So where would one go above "like new"? Would you have to invent new words? Perhaps you could say it still needs assembly since it is so much better than "like new" that it is still at the factory and has yet to be put together/assembled from all new-old-stock parts?
So yeah I'm kinda kidding around, but at the same time I'm not. If you actually believe that describing these former items of yours as "perfect" and "like new" driving and appearing is appropriate or even sorta true, well, you go brother. Whatever helps you sleep at night!
Its too bad that the new Rennlist member who paid your asking price for your car is not on your Christmas card list but oh well. Perhaps your reputation is not as important to you as you thought?
Oh by the way I would have never opened my fat mouth about any of this had I not seen you post in this thread and jump on the pig-pile about some other inter-web wrongdoer. I saw irony and could not help myself, sorry!
damn i've got to proof read!
kie, i didn't take your comments as kidding around....my reputation is important to me.
its not a joke when the buyer of your car (your new friend) emails the seller(me) a week later complaining about the clutch and transmission having problems and then 3 weeks after the purchase he emails about the frame being bent with no other comunication even after he takes car to pro to check out and car is fine.
i think its strange peculiar behavior so i didn't take your comment as a joke......perhaps you should discuss with your new friend before going public?
my car was an excellent example compared to anything else i saw or drove with 100K miles...thats why i bought it.
when i sold my 993 it did look "like" new a dove "like new"....i never stated it was new....my car wasn't sold sight unseen... after spending an hour driving and looking over the car the new buyer could have walked if it was not to their liking.
prior to the sale, i asked all 3 rennlister's who looked and drove my car(including the new owner)if i described the car to their satisfaction and all 3 were pleased....
it wasn't till a week and then again 3 weeks later that i started getting ridiculous emails from the buyer(your new friend) regarding the clutch and bent frame paranoid statement...
bottom line is the buyer of my car spent plenty of time looking, driving and going over service records and it drove perfectly well for the hour he spent redlining and driving the car extremely hard prior to purchase.
lets move on
kie, i didn't take your comments as kidding around....my reputation is important to me.
its not a joke when the buyer of your car (your new friend) emails the seller(me) a week later complaining about the clutch and transmission having problems and then 3 weeks after the purchase he emails about the frame being bent with no other comunication even after he takes car to pro to check out and car is fine.
i think its strange peculiar behavior so i didn't take your comment as a joke......perhaps you should discuss with your new friend before going public?
my car was an excellent example compared to anything else i saw or drove with 100K miles...thats why i bought it.
when i sold my 993 it did look "like" new a dove "like new"....i never stated it was new....my car wasn't sold sight unseen... after spending an hour driving and looking over the car the new buyer could have walked if it was not to their liking.
prior to the sale, i asked all 3 rennlister's who looked and drove my car(including the new owner)if i described the car to their satisfaction and all 3 were pleased....
it wasn't till a week and then again 3 weeks later that i started getting ridiculous emails from the buyer(your new friend) regarding the clutch and bent frame paranoid statement...
bottom line is the buyer of my car spent plenty of time looking, driving and going over service records and it drove perfectly well for the hour he spent redlining and driving the car extremely hard prior to purchase.
lets move on
04-30-2009, 04:51 PM
#89
Seared
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mongrelcat
I was certainly driving very gently on the test drives, perhaps I just didn't notice it because of that.
Any mediators in the house? Anyone? Bueller?
Andreas
