Buyer Beware
05-08-2006, 10:10 PM
#1
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Buyer Beware
I have owned various Porsches for the past 14 years and will hopefully continue to have the good fortune to do so in the future. All of my cars have been a joy to own and drive.....until now.
I recently purchased a 1995 993 Cabriolet from Buxton Motorsports WITHOUT A PPI. I know what you all are thinking.....Why would anyone in their right mind do such a thing?
I am absolutely pissed off at myself for not utilizing such a simple and effective "insurance policy" in the purchase of a used vehicle. There is NO EXCUSE for what I DID NOT DO and am now literally paying for it.
Background: March 2006---In the market for a 993 Cab; drove a few but was not overly impressed with particular vehicles. Came across Buxton Motorsports website and found an attractive 993 Cab in my desired color (Polar Silver). Spoke to Brian Buxton regarding vehicle and received a plethora of pictures and full vehicle description disclosure. I was very impressed with the car.
Followed up with a search on Rennlist on "Buxton Motorsports" and was pleased with the overall results---supposedly a good guy to deal with and is also a Rennlist sponsor. I proceeded to negotiate a satisfactory price on the vehicle, which included shipping from Evansville, IN to my front door. I received a clean Carfax as well as numerous assurances that the car was solid and "does not leak oil".
It was at this point that I committed my unthinkable crime---I trusted a USED car salesman, let my heart rule my head (I know, another no-no), and bought a car sight unseen. I felt that I had negotiated in good faith and expected the same in return.
Fast forward a few weeks later after I had accepted delivery of the vehicle. Took the car into the shop for an oil change,brake flush, and a "once over". It was at this point that I was advised that my recently purchased vehicle, although pretty on the outside, had some serious issues. Problem #1: Right rear torn CV boots needed replacement ($600 parts and labor). Problem #2: SIGNIFICANT oil leak from lower valve covers (IA billet covers just ordered at $300 plus a full days labor at $95/hr to replace lowers, fit new gaskets on uppers, and complete clean up to rival that of the Exxon Valdeez). Although I had been told more than once that the car "does not leak oil" by this supposed reputable Rennlist sponsor, my team of mechanics assured me that the car has been suffering leaking issues for quite some time as the residue is literally caked on. Its sad to see images of Niagra Falls when your car is placed on a lift.
Additionally, although I am not as concerned as the above big ticket items, the following vehicle faults are present: cruise control inoperable; horn does not function (worn relays, not fuse), headlight washers inoperable, and rear tires are of different brands (left rear is Toyo; right rear is Bridgestone).
Of key importance here is the fact that I have driven the car a grand total of 300 miles. Today I spoke with Brian Buxton, Rennlist Sponsor and USED car salesman, in an effort to see if he would help to "make things right". I realize he is in the business to make money and would not expect him to FULLY reimburse me for the cars series of mechanical woes. However, a partial refund of my purchase price to pay for necessary repair work would seem fair and just. He once again reiterated that "the car does not leak oil", the vehicle is 11 years old, and "people who purchase such used cars do so because they cannot afford a brand new model". When I mentioned the CV boot repair, he stated that his mechanics checked over the car and found no suspension issues, and that "it could have happened during transport due to improper tie down of the car".
My first foray into 993 ownership has turned from sheer joy to utter disgust. I would literally stand in the garage and admire the lines, especially the imposing 3/4 view the car offered when it first arrived. Now I can't stand the sight of it.
I know this sounds like a whiny, woe is me type of post. I do not want anyone's sympathy. I f*cked-up big time on this deal and am paying for it. Lesson surely learned---it will never happen again. I guess my reason for posting is to warn others that no matter who is selling the car and how trustworthy this individual appears to be, get a truly unbiased PPI on the car.
I am still undecided as to whether I will keep the car or dump it. As Mr Buxton was quick to remind me, "You paid wholesale ($33.5) for the car, so even if you put a few thousand into it, you still come out ahead". Yeah dude, whatever...
Mike
PS Buxton Motorsports currently has a 993 TT listed in the Rennlist classifieds----be sure to get a PPI or maybe even spring for 2 PPIs just to make sure you are not on the receiving end of "When Rennlist Sponsors Go Bad".
I recently purchased a 1995 993 Cabriolet from Buxton Motorsports WITHOUT A PPI. I know what you all are thinking.....Why would anyone in their right mind do such a thing?
I am absolutely pissed off at myself for not utilizing such a simple and effective "insurance policy" in the purchase of a used vehicle. There is NO EXCUSE for what I DID NOT DO and am now literally paying for it.Background: March 2006---In the market for a 993 Cab; drove a few but was not overly impressed with particular vehicles. Came across Buxton Motorsports website and found an attractive 993 Cab in my desired color (Polar Silver). Spoke to Brian Buxton regarding vehicle and received a plethora of pictures and full vehicle description disclosure. I was very impressed with the car.
Followed up with a search on Rennlist on "Buxton Motorsports" and was pleased with the overall results---supposedly a good guy to deal with and is also a Rennlist sponsor. I proceeded to negotiate a satisfactory price on the vehicle, which included shipping from Evansville, IN to my front door. I received a clean Carfax as well as numerous assurances that the car was solid and "does not leak oil".
It was at this point that I committed my unthinkable crime---I trusted a USED car salesman, let my heart rule my head (I know, another no-no), and bought a car sight unseen. I felt that I had negotiated in good faith and expected the same in return.
Fast forward a few weeks later after I had accepted delivery of the vehicle. Took the car into the shop for an oil change,brake flush, and a "once over". It was at this point that I was advised that my recently purchased vehicle, although pretty on the outside, had some serious issues. Problem #1: Right rear torn CV boots needed replacement ($600 parts and labor). Problem #2: SIGNIFICANT oil leak from lower valve covers (IA billet covers just ordered at $300 plus a full days labor at $95/hr to replace lowers, fit new gaskets on uppers, and complete clean up to rival that of the Exxon Valdeez). Although I had been told more than once that the car "does not leak oil" by this supposed reputable Rennlist sponsor, my team of mechanics assured me that the car has been suffering leaking issues for quite some time as the residue is literally caked on. Its sad to see images of Niagra Falls when your car is placed on a lift.
Additionally, although I am not as concerned as the above big ticket items, the following vehicle faults are present: cruise control inoperable; horn does not function (worn relays, not fuse), headlight washers inoperable, and rear tires are of different brands (left rear is Toyo; right rear is Bridgestone).
Of key importance here is the fact that I have driven the car a grand total of 300 miles. Today I spoke with Brian Buxton, Rennlist Sponsor and USED car salesman, in an effort to see if he would help to "make things right". I realize he is in the business to make money and would not expect him to FULLY reimburse me for the cars series of mechanical woes. However, a partial refund of my purchase price to pay for necessary repair work would seem fair and just. He once again reiterated that "the car does not leak oil", the vehicle is 11 years old, and "people who purchase such used cars do so because they cannot afford a brand new model". When I mentioned the CV boot repair, he stated that his mechanics checked over the car and found no suspension issues, and that "it could have happened during transport due to improper tie down of the car".
My first foray into 993 ownership has turned from sheer joy to utter disgust. I would literally stand in the garage and admire the lines, especially the imposing 3/4 view the car offered when it first arrived. Now I can't stand the sight of it.
I know this sounds like a whiny, woe is me type of post. I do not want anyone's sympathy. I f*cked-up big time on this deal and am paying for it. Lesson surely learned---it will never happen again. I guess my reason for posting is to warn others that no matter who is selling the car and how trustworthy this individual appears to be, get a truly unbiased PPI on the car.
I am still undecided as to whether I will keep the car or dump it. As Mr Buxton was quick to remind me, "You paid wholesale ($33.5) for the car, so even if you put a few thousand into it, you still come out ahead". Yeah dude, whatever...
Mike
PS Buxton Motorsports currently has a 993 TT listed in the Rennlist classifieds----be sure to get a PPI or maybe even spring for 2 PPIs just to make sure you are not on the receiving end of "When Rennlist Sponsors Go Bad".
05-08-2006, 10:21 PM
#2
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WOW! That is horrible.. there is simply NO exuse for lying about that much oil and an obvious older leak AND a CV boot.
Something about dealerships and used car dealers just sends 'no trust' signals very loud and clear!
I think trust a regular Rennlister over a dealership sponsor any day of the week (but that is just me I guess).
I guess now the clear message is to ALWAYS at the very least show up in person to ask to personally view the car up on a lift with the covers removed before making a final decision/deal.
It sounds like the dealer salesman either a) Honestly didn't know about the oil and just claimed no leak b) they never did have their mechanics review the car and lied about it or c) knew the problems and lied about it
Something about dealerships and used car dealers just sends 'no trust' signals very loud and clear!
I think trust a regular Rennlister over a dealership sponsor any day of the week (but that is just me I guess).
I guess now the clear message is to ALWAYS at the very least show up in person to ask to personally view the car up on a lift with the covers removed before making a final decision/deal.
It sounds like the dealer salesman either a) Honestly didn't know about the oil and just claimed no leak b) they never did have their mechanics review the car and lied about it or c) knew the problems and lied about it
05-08-2006, 10:26 PM
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Sorry you had a bad experience, and that you are unhappy with the seller. Hopefully when it's all fixed, you can forget about the transaction and enjoy the car.
Having said that: the CVs and lower covers are easy, cheap items to fix - any chance a DIY group could form at your house to help out? A few beers should cover the labor cost, and the parts really are cheap (assuming you just change the rubber cover gaskets, not swap for the nice looking but unnecessary billets).
Good luck!
Having said that: the CVs and lower covers are easy, cheap items to fix - any chance a DIY group could form at your house to help out? A few beers should cover the labor cost, and the parts really are cheap (assuming you just change the rubber cover gaskets, not swap for the nice looking but unnecessary billets).
Good luck!
05-08-2006, 10:38 PM
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Sorry for the miss fortune, I too plunged into the abyss with only a friends once over. I've been lucky. Hang in there and you will soon find the joy of sliding down the slope with the rest of us. Just curious how many miles on your car??
05-08-2006, 10:47 PM
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Lousy deal Mike. Sorry to hear about the bad luck. But your post is on the mark for reinforcing the importance of a PPI. Hopefully others considering a purchase will learn from your misfortune. Good luck with the repairs and I hope you'll enjoy the car once it's done.
05-08-2006, 10:47 PM
#6
I guess since I am a DIY guy none of the things you mentioned are a big deal to me. A new rear tire is less than $200. CV boots $9.00 ea. Billet valve covers? I would stick with the plastic ones and buy new seals ($50.00). My cruise did not work but I was able to fix it for free (was unplugged). The other things are minor in my book.
I understand you being upset because you thought the car you were getting was pristine. 11 year old cars seldom are. A PPI would have saved you a headache as you already know.
If it makes you feel any better my PPI also said no leaks. 1 week after I had the car I found small oil leaks on my garage floor. No It was not the valve covers it was the RMS!!!
I ended up dropping the engine and replacing the worn clutch and fixing the RMS myself. To the tune of 2K!!
Also the PPI said my car had no body damage. Well guess what? After several weeks, I noticed as I was waxing the car that the passenger door and both mirrors had been resprayed!! So I feel your pain but even a PPI is not a guarantee. All used cars have warts.
I hope you are able to live with your car. Clean it up and make it right and enjoy the car for what it is. One of the finest sports cars ever made.
I understand you being upset because you thought the car you were getting was pristine. 11 year old cars seldom are. A PPI would have saved you a headache as you already know.
If it makes you feel any better my PPI also said no leaks. 1 week after I had the car I found small oil leaks on my garage floor. No It was not the valve covers it was the RMS!!!
I ended up dropping the engine and replacing the worn clutch and fixing the RMS myself. To the tune of 2K!!Also the PPI said my car had no body damage. Well guess what? After several weeks, I noticed as I was waxing the car that the passenger door and both mirrors had been resprayed!! So I feel your pain but even a PPI is not a guarantee. All used cars have warts.
I hope you are able to live with your car. Clean it up and make it right and enjoy the car for what it is. One of the finest sports cars ever made.
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05-08-2006, 10:49 PM
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hmm.. seems like the best thing is to get a PPI AND see the car in person for your own inspection just to be sure if buying from a dealer.... ARG!
05-08-2006, 10:56 PM
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Wow...
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I actually almost bought that exact car. I contemplated a PPI in Brians hometown, but I sort of figured everyone in Evanston in the Porsche business knew each other and a local PPI wouldn't be worth much. I have no evidence to prove or disprove that theory but it was just my hunch, so I passed on the car.
If it makes you feel better, I went on to make a similar mistake with a different dealer. I purchased a car of similar vintage from Stoddard Porsche, a typically reputable dealer, with some similar problems and results. I even had Stoddard do a PPI which came back with no oil leaks found, just normal residue. I had mine PostPI'd when it got to me and lo and behold.. the rear main was leaking and had been for a while. Caked on residue, steady oil leaking, etc. etc. etc.
There really isn't much recourse but I offer you my empathy. These are emotional decisions and expensive ones and we are just paying earlier rather than later. And I paid a lot more for mine than you did to boot....
I actually think of my 993 as a very inexpensive child. It makes me feel better..
My wife calls it the mistress in the garage. Much cheaper than the real thing (which would cost me half my stuff)...and doesn't require a lawyer....Yet.
Good luck. Enjoy the car and remember.. karma is a bitch.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I actually almost bought that exact car. I contemplated a PPI in Brians hometown, but I sort of figured everyone in Evanston in the Porsche business knew each other and a local PPI wouldn't be worth much. I have no evidence to prove or disprove that theory but it was just my hunch, so I passed on the car.
If it makes you feel better, I went on to make a similar mistake with a different dealer. I purchased a car of similar vintage from Stoddard Porsche, a typically reputable dealer, with some similar problems and results. I even had Stoddard do a PPI which came back with no oil leaks found, just normal residue. I had mine PostPI'd when it got to me and lo and behold.. the rear main was leaking and had been for a while. Caked on residue, steady oil leaking, etc. etc. etc.
There really isn't much recourse but I offer you my empathy. These are emotional decisions and expensive ones and we are just paying earlier rather than later. And I paid a lot more for mine than you did to boot....
I actually think of my 993 as a very inexpensive child. It makes me feel better..
My wife calls it the mistress in the garage. Much cheaper than the real thing (which would cost me half my stuff)...and doesn't require a lawyer....Yet.
Good luck. Enjoy the car and remember.. karma is a bitch.
Last edited by grungyspeed; 05-08-2006 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Add info
05-08-2006, 10:59 PM
#11
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I don't buy in to the statement "people who buy these cars, can't afford new models" I spoke with him a few times while I was looking and was not impressed. Although he lied to you, the repairs don't seem to be that big of a deal as several have already said.
05-08-2006, 11:03 PM
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My cruise control didn't work on my "new" 993 when I picked it up. I stopped at a gas station, replaced the fuse and all was good. Maybe it's as simple as that.
05-08-2006, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mstupp
Sorry to hear about your car. I've been there. Is this the car?
http://www.buxtonmotorsports.com/17.php
http://www.buxtonmotorsports.com/17.php
Yes that's the car. It has 55K miles. Thanks for all the words of encouragement.
Mike
05-08-2006, 11:23 PM
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Been there, still there...still paying for repairs.
I live in Severna Park, MD any Rennlister who wants to repair anything on my car is welcome. I will cook, pay for the beer and clean up afterwards. Hell, I will even pay for Viper Bob or any other "I could fix it person" to fly to my home, so he may fix a few things that did not show up on my last PPI! Please bring your tool box!
Mike, I know your disappointment! And, Hell will freeze over before I'd consider purchasing anything from Buxton Motorsports. Thanks for saving me from myself!!!
I live in Severna Park, MD any Rennlister who wants to repair anything on my car is welcome. I will cook, pay for the beer and clean up afterwards. Hell, I will even pay for Viper Bob or any other "I could fix it person" to fly to my home, so he may fix a few things that did not show up on my last PPI! Please bring your tool box!
Mike, I know your disappointment! And, Hell will freeze over before I'd consider purchasing anything from Buxton Motorsports. Thanks for saving me from myself!!!