Red rooster

Wayne,
Had a look in a Bosch book

" When knocking occurs , the ignition system is retarded for a specific number of cycles , whereafter it gradually again approaches the original value . "

That says it all.

Sun is shining ! Barbecue tonight ???????????????????????

All the best

Geoff

NineMeister

Give me a few weeks longer and the answer will be yes, but I am curious as to why Ruf cannot provide a suitable solution? Maybe this warrants starting another thread?

Unfortunately making sure the 4.0 litre engine project stayed on program absorbed almost all of our capacity over the last few weeks, but now that the design has largely been completed we have the brainpower to push the 9m ECU into production. The intention is to carry out the initial tests on my RSR then find a suitable 993TT owner (we already have one in mind) to act as a guinea pig for the initial set up & mapping. The production TT ecu will thus come with a start map for our larger injectors and have preset boost control, MAF and knock functions.

If you need one send urgently I suggest that you mail me direct and we can see what we can achieve.

TB993tt

Your limitation of development of power is firstly intercooling and secondly (mid range torque/power) lack of twin plug. The existing Motronic has run up to around 600 (Ruf style) hp in MAF mode and up to nearly 700 (ruf style) hp in MAP mode - The existing ECU could give more if the intercooling is up to it, but already at these levels of (real) hp you have an engine which will have to be maintained to a "race-engine" like schedule.

NineMeister

Toby,
With all due respect, my limitation of development of power from the TT engine is a complete unknown to you since you are making the mistake of assuming that you know all the engines that I am working on.

Secondly whilst I also fully understand your wealth of knowledge and experience on all things TT, if 9m merely followed in the same development path of all others before us - like you have suggested on many, many occasions - the results we eventually obtained would be no better than already exist, so what would be the point?

The 9m way is to seed radical new ideas, test them thoroughly and then take them to the marketplace as part of complete packages with known performance. This I believe is the very essence of this post which is by a 993 owner who is delighted with the 9m package on his car, especially after GT3 owners rounded up on him at a track day and insisted that he show them his supercharger after he passed most of them on the day.

I knew that mentioning the new 9m ecu w.r.t. the TT was bound to raise an interest, and since a Ruf owner (presumeable with genuine Ruf hp) is interested in the new 9m ecu suggests that others have also found limitations with the standard Motronic device, so we are probably onto something. Time alone will tell.

LAT

Colin,
The car is a RUF serial number narrow body CTR-2.

It is presently at RUF getting a major rebuild, bumper to bumper. I drive the car as a touring car, light on the luggage and put miles on it.

HP Lieb, RUF's right hand man and I were on the phone last week discussing the progress of my car and he mentioned that the biggest advantage of the 996/997 series is the ECU. Coincidentally I read your postings and therefore my interest in your development.

Keep the dialogue open.

PS. I like your approach to solving problems.

LT

wayne325

Dudes.....

I was being a wiseguy. Thinking what it would be like if ECUs had OS like PCs.

ruffy

if car ecu's ran on a PC like system... youd get viruses and spam mails all the time... not to mention having to pull over on the highway and rebooting...lol

TB993tt

Read my post again ! I am answering LAT's post - Your views on limtations of what the 993tt motor can be made to do and my views are so far apart -you think that you know more than a team who had Bosch as development partners (yes they design the ECUs ) in producing the fastest 996tt racer - There is no point entering into debate.
LAT
You need to talk to Herr Leib some more - Ruf don't seem to have the technical ability to make twin plug work with the Motronic and this is major limitation to getting big mid range torque. Ultimate top end power is limited by intercooling as I mentioned before. There is a (intercooling) solution out there, and I hope to be the first with it. Suffice to say I will post AX22 60-130mph results for all to see

Geoffrey

Toby, I don't think Colin is suggesting he knows more than the RS Tuning gods (although he may very well) and as pointed out there are many different ways to solve an issue. There are a number of intercooling options without resorting to your $20k Secan intercooler to keep temperatures in line. In another thread, you still have failed to demonstrate what intake air temperatures are too high so while intercooling is important, I believe there to be sufficient options out there based on the datalogging I've shown. There are any number of ECU options for a 993tt, especially if it is a pure racing car and things like OBDII are not a requirement. In fact, just this weekend I finished a completely 996TT GT2 with a MoTeC ECU that runs variable camshafts and has the capability of drive by wire 460rwhp@.55bar of boost. So, ECU technology is available outside of Bosch. I still fail to see how AX22 results can provide any kind of accurate performance measurements of an engine since it is measuring a complete system (the car) with too many variables to in play - gearing, weight, traction, HP, Torque, aerodynamics. You should put you car on Colin's dyno since you know the engine HP from RS Tuning's engine dyno. I think that should resolve your issue with Colin's chassis dyno.

NineMeister

Just did, I definitely jumped to the wrong conclusion, sorry for the sound off!!

However your follow up statement also re-affirms that others have little chance of getting the best from the motronic system unless they have Bosch by their side, the chance of which is nil.

PS. the offer is still open to dyno your car at any time with our new system.

Jean

Interesting thread, now that turbos have been mentioned it is even more exciting.
Colin good to see you as a sponsor on the board. Is your new dyno system that you are talking about the same that can show a 993TT with stock GT2 K24s yielding an incredible 550HP?

LAT

I have spoken to Mr Lieb about why they don't develop the 993 vein more. The response is that the new technology as in 996 and 997 is so much better to work with and there are only so many projects to tackle that they have basically ceased development on the 993 to what they have.

I believe Ruf feels there is more return in advancing the new technology, there are more cars for one and it is not going away for two.

Jean

Geoffrey
I bought an EPROM burner (and UV eraser) from the internet, and have access to a free Motronic mapping software via my tuner and I burn chips ($10 per piece) and change them in my ECU like I am playing PSP . I carry with me a box with EPROM chips with different maps for my car and depending what I want to do, I change them on my 993 N/A ECU during a track day in little more than 2 minutes. I found a way not to even remove the seat and uncover the ECU.
Regarding the later 993 ECUs, if this is the case and they have to be desoldered, then it might be just simpler to buy an earlier one and have it installed, although desoldering a chip is not rocket science since I myself can do it for the 996TT, and I am short of being an ignorant when it comes to soldering (and many other things ). There is a simple process that needs to be followed to desolder and resolder the chip that takes no more than 15-20 minutes..

Lorenfb

"Regarding the later 993 ECUs, if this is the case and they have to be desoldered, then it might be just simpler to buy an earlier one and have it installed,"

The early 993 ('95) ECMs use a 55 pin connector which are not interchangeable
with the later 993 ECMs. The 55 pin DME is simple to deal with because
of the EPROM socket.

"although desoldering a chip is not rocket science since I myself can do it for the 996TT, and I am short of being an ignorant when it comes to soldering (and many other things ). There is a simple process that needs to be followed to desolder and resolder the chip that takes no more than 15-20 minutes.."

That's the simple part:

1. Removing it (a mask ROM) without destroying the board and its interface
devices is more difficult.
2. Finding a replacement device, SMD OTP (surface mount device one-time-program)
ROM is more difficult.
3. Programming the SMD ROM is more difficult as it's not like the old uv EPROMs.
4. Re-soldering the ROM back on the board w/o damage is another problem.
5. The re-programming must be right-on the first time because the board won't
take many de-solderings.

Simple solution: If a vehicle has the later 88 pin connector but with the mask ROM
DME, buy a late ('97/'98) 993 DME which has a flash memory and can be programmed
from the diagnostic port.

Jean

Loren...yes I got that the other way around. The easy solution is to replace for a later ECU and you can then put whatever programs you have by simply burning a chip on a burner. My ECU BTW is a '96 N/A ECU and I can replace the chips very easily.
The 996TT flashing (which can be done on my burner as well) and chip replacement is more difficult than the 993, but not very difficult at all in my experience, in just needs more patience, and I meant without damaging the board of course!