schwank

It's the same with many high end marques. How many ferraris ever get driven at even 8/10? Most of the AMG Benz models I see rarely need more than half of their rated HP. Hard to use 500 ponies in stop and go traffic. It's the same with Audi... most of the drivers I see are middle aged women. But the few percent of their customers who qualify as enthusiasts are rabid fans, including me. Does it makes financial sense for audi to cater to these consumers? No - the mainstream customers bring in FAR more money, and probably complain less. Hence, Audi currently has no chance for my next car purchase. Nice? Yes. But when their goal is to compete with BMW on volume (see Autoweek mag), they surely won't be putting in the features that the enthusiasts desire.

Porsche (re)opened new markets with the Boxster and the Cayenne. Is it a surprise that the enthusiast mindshare is diluted when they sell more Cayenne's than Boxsters and 911s combined? 99% of the SUV market is non-enthusiast. But if initial indications of the Cayman are correct, it may well be one of the best balanced p-cars ever.

That said, I have drooled over 911s since I was a wee one. Nothing else will satisfy me. I'm talking air cooled too, no 99+. Most of the cars I like are NOT new - the market in the USA is crap IMHO. Will I pay 85K for a Tiptronic-only RS4? No. Would I pay premium for an unmolested real drivers car - Yes.

Besides, if you are that hardcore, you can always build an Ultima GTR in your garage Great discussion though, cheers!

Bull

"Wrong"??? I try to live with the phrase "it is neither right or wrong, it is just different" in mind. I can only tell what is right or wrong for me, not someone else (assuming we are talking at a level above immoral and illegal).

When I say I think 993 is "right", and Cayenne is "wrong", I try to remember to add "for me"......I also hope many people are laughing at me and my ways at any given time, because I am sure going to be laughing at some of them!

Now, about those power windows, power seats, power steering, hydraulic clutches..............

fbfisher

It sounds like the number of "enthusiasts" has gone down and the number of "utilitarians" has gone up. Don't know what "utilitarian" means unless it's all those who track their GT2's and GT3's. IF the data was from later, I would suspect that those who take their Cayenne to Home Depot would also fall in the "utilitarian" category.

Dan V

The Porsche that built my 993 no longer exists, which is fine with me because I don't mind owning old cars for the rest of my life.

p_carfan

After 35 years of Porsche / 911 variant ownership, financial and psychological abuse at the hands of the stealerships (don't get me wrong....I'm heavy into the DIY stuff, basically why I've hung on this long). My next ride will most likely be a Lamborghini Gallardo. Porsche, as the marque that I've loved from my teenage years is DONE IMHO.

BTW Lambo dealers........Do back flips kissing your ***, sorry I like that.

JTW

Uh...GT3?

eloyex

seems to be porsche is gonna end building all sort of things .... motorcycles, tractors, bikes, TV´s , farming equipments and so .... sport cars have never been a profitable business anyway ...

Kevin Ross

Hiya... I'm going to poke my nose into this debate and fuel the fire

When Dr Porsche set about creating his legacy, it was all about the car. Today, Wendeling (sp?) runs the company based purely on return to shareholders. When a company focuses it's energies on revenue, decisions are made that maximises that goal - often at the expense of it's brand.

Have Porsche fought fiercely for it's indepenance at the expense of it's heritage? Let's face it, the Cayenne may be a fantastic engineering exercise... but if it had been badged as an Audi with a little sticker beneath saying (Powered by Porsche) would it have done well?

Would any of us really have cared if Porsche had been bought by VW way back, and been able to stick to making the worlds very best sports cars? Would we have cared if today there was a Le Mans VW-AUDI-Porsche racing team still winning?

Surely that's what creates enthusiasm... look at Ferrari. They still make desirable cars, they still make money, they still have enthusiasts... who cares that they are owned by FIAT. Someone mentioned buying the next top of the line Audi... sorry, Lambo!!

Bull

I suppose it is time now to bring up that Ferry Porsche died on March 27, 1998, 2 weeks after the last aircooled Porsche left the Factory!

Conspiracy theorists are left to ponder:

1. Did he die from a broken heart?

2. Did the "futurists" poisen him?

3. He couldn't take learning Japanese?

4. He is still alive, designing the next 356 Carrera....with Elvis as his test driver?

993Maineiac

What a pity-everytime Porsche is about to go belly up they come up with a vehicle that none of us "enthusiasts" (defined as being a Rennlist groupie/addict) seems to like. Shall we recite in unison 914, 924, 944, Cayanne, and the soon to be produced four door coupe.

There are only two real reasons that any of us own Porsches-we wanted one and we had the money (or could borrow the money) to pay for one. Apologies to those that inherited theirs.

From what I have read the Porsche family is still very involved and their coming to PCA events proves that they care about entusiasts. The Cayman looks to be a scene steeler of the first order as a pure sportscar. The new 997 is fantastic. And finally-they are getting back to racing, if not at the top tier then at the second tier with an option to move up. The drawing of the Americania looks fantastic-I wish they had had the $$$ in the early 90's to build the four door then. The pictures of the prototype also looked worthy of the breed.

Soooooo-I think that Porsche has always sold new cars to those that want the implyed status that is attached thereto, and we come in on the secondary market. I personnally can't wait until depreciation hits the Cayman-I'll be the first on line.

Nomex on---

Al

Father of 3

First off, I live in LA so if depending upon where I am in the city every fifth car might be a Porsche (in beverly hills maybe every third). I think part of Porsches fortunes of late, as well as that of every other super luxury name, is being driven by two trends: 1) over leveraged consumers and 2) the mass creep up the luxury chain. I don't know how it is where you all live, but in LA its ridiculous. Everybody here drives BMWs, Mercs, Porsches, Audis, Lexus. These are not cheap cars. I'm amazed as I drive around some not so good neighborhoods and see tons of brand new $30k to $50k SUVs. Porsche is just one beneficiary of this conspicuous consumption. As the tide rose, more decided that leasing that new Porsh was what they had to do. I can't remember the exact stat but somewhere I read about the mean income of Porsche buyers. This was a while ago but the figure was very high. I wonder what it is now.

pcar964

Exactly Kevin

pcar964

So am I safe to assume that you bought your Porsches to impress other people? That is sad.

texas911

And you're jealous of people who can afford a new Porsche. Sad.

mooty

My next ride will most likely be a Lamborghini Gallardo. Porsche, as the marque that I've loved from my teenage years is DONE IMHO.
____________
right on. gallardo or F430. p car is getting awfully boring ;-)
seljan, nice lambo!

why i buy porsche? i want to see how many DE's it takes to blow up my motor ;-)