dsandfort

e-mail to paramount. Subject: WTFO? in so many words.

donsacto

Sux that your out $700. Start documenting all your phone conversations and any letters you sent to the dealer. Sometimes all it takes is the threat of legal action. These ****** probably think you don't know your rights so they are just brushing you off. Find out what your rights are in the State of NC and start to pursue possible legal action.. In the mean time, the RL email campaign will continue.

BCPorsche1

Nhien,

I can understand your misinterpretation of the situation and how it has truly come about. However, if we are going to be truthful about the situation, let's not put a one-sided false spin on the whole ordeal. You gave a credit card number, which was never run, (due to Privacy Act Verification issues) to hold the car for you which I was able to extend with my sales manager to accommodate you and your situation (being out-of-state).

I had asked you for further information (copy of drivers license, cover sheet filled out, and a credit statement) to proceed with the paperwork and inner workings of putting a 'deal' together. You obviously decided that it was not within your extremely busy schedule to allow 10-15 minutes to gather this information and return it to me. My sales manager repeatedly asked where your information was, and I didn’t have any answer for him other than 'I have not received anything yet', he was not willing to wait for weeks and weeks more for your schedule to become un-busy or for you to decide you weren't taking the car for some reason.

With each call after the request for information, I continued to request this information from you and your flight details. Again, you did not furnish any of this information. As far as my offer to pick you up at the airport, I can assure you that if you had actually shared your flight details with me (or any other information for that matter) that I would have been there to pick you up at the airport or hotel. As I have sold cars to many out-of-state customers before and been exactly where I promised to be at the exact times I stated I would be there. However, all of these customers shared their 'arrangements' with me.

This is a car that I told you would not last. You changed your plans from flying out to see the car, to having the car shipped out to you, to having a third party check the car over and then flying out to see the car and then having us ship the car back to you. Each phone call making the deal more complex then it ever truly needed to be. All the while, still not returning any information to me that was requested or sharing any of the flight details and arrangements that you had supposedly already made.

I did not learn of any of these supposed 'arrangements' until you had been informed that the car had been sold to another party. Unfortunately, I do not have control over the lack of communication and sharing of your information. Again, we went out of our way to attempt to accommodate your situation. However, as you continued to 'waffle' and flip back and forth between what you thought you might have wanted to do about this car, your lack of communication and sharing your information with me has cost you and me a great car and a sale.

It is unfortunate that your indecisiveness has cost us both so much. It is also unfortunate that you have so 'ethically' gone out on to the internet message boards, and stated your untrue version of how you put a deposit down on a car and flew out here and the car was sold out from under you. Funny but I never actually got any of your flight details for this flight that you took out here to purchase this car.

Given the situation I believe it would be in our best interest to speak truthfully about the way things truly went, instead of putting a one-sided false spin on the actual story.

Regards,

Brent

Smokin

Having worked in the car business for many years (On one side of the fence or the other.) I can say that a deposit is usually good for only 48 hours and that is only for the person to make travel arrangements, get their own money, etc... But they have committed to purchase the vehicle. A $500 deposit is customary for a good-faith deposit. I know that with Porsches it is a little more detailed with wanting to get a PPI prior to purchase... But the dealer's primary concern is selling cars, making a profit and flipping their money as soon as possible. (Isn't it like that for all businesses?) If I were the dealer and you wanted me to hold the car for longer than that... And you were unsure about wanting to purchase it, I would have asked for a non-refundable deposit. Dealers have to make their money when they can. If they let a car sit for too long they get saddled with floor-plan interest that they have to pay on a (usually) monthly basis. For high dollar cars like Porsches... This interest adds up extremely fast. I sympathize with the potential buyer but the dealer did nothing wrong here IMHO.

jw97C2S

drnd
Did you already have a PPI performed or were you not going to have one completed? Did the dealer charge your crdeit card?

BCPorsche1

jw97C2S

We gave the car a full 120 point gold check inspection, the same inspection a pre-owned Porsche has to go through to become certified. The car checked out perfect, as it is a 1996 C4S with less than 25,000 miles on it. The car is/was perfect. However, there seems to be a lack of trust issue. We are a franchised Porsche dealer and pride ourselves in our reputation in the industry and how well we take care of our customers in all areas.

We gave drnd the name and number of a local third party Porsche expert to have his car third party inspected. It is his responsibility to setup and pay for this type of inspection. To my knowledge this was never done.

If you dont trust the dealership you are working with to provide you a car that has been inspected from one end to the other by a Porsche Master Technician with over 25 years of experience, you probably dont need to buy the car. IMHO.

jw97C2S

BCPorsche

Thanks for the info. You might want to reconsider offering a PPI for the vehicles you sell. You will be held to a much higher standard if subsequent problems arise. For this reason, I would have no problem using your dealership for a PPI on a vehicle you were selling.

How many days elapsed from the date drnd provided his credit card number until the vehicle was eventually sold?

Rick Lee

"If you dont trust the dealership you are working with to provide you a car that has been inspected from one end to the other by a Porsche Master Technician with over 25 years of experience, you probably dont need to buy the car. "

You obviously haven't been on the Internet chat boards very long. While your story sounds pretty plausible and I understand you're in business to move cars, enthusiasts like those here and on Pelican have a very justified skepticism of Porsche dealers. There are ENDLESS stories here of how dealer technicians screwed up people's cars. I wouldn't go to a dealer if the service were free.

TheOtherEric

No offense, BCPorsche (since you actually sound pretty honest) but that's a ridiculous statement and we're far too educated to follow such bad advice. It would be downright foolish to not have a p-car inspected by a disinterested 3rd party. Your guys might be honest, but that's not generally the case and we know it.

BTW, you presented a good case so I'm interested in hearing the poster's rebuttal.

JPhillips-998

Simple lack of communication, like most of these issues. The dealership is fully in the right to try to move cars and if a prospective purchaser hasn't "fully committed" to buying by providing flight information, scheduling the visit, taken action to schedule the PPI, completed an application, etc. then they have the right to sell to anyone they choose at whatever price they choose. I don't think it is there responsibility to offer a certificate for a third-party PPI, that is the responsibility of the buyer.
Now if the dealership refuses to let the car be inspected by a third party, that is another story.

I would not have any problem purchasing a car through a p-car dealer and for service, while I don't use them (cost and bad experiences) I am sure there are plenty of stories where the dealerships have used their influence with PCNA to help out customers ( I hope).

Dr. No

I'm glad BCPorsche came on to tell their side of the story. But it sounds like there was at least a misunderstanding as to what the deposit got drnd, and nothing about whether or not it's reasonable to "trust" a dealer or get a PPI changes whether the car was sold out from under him after he gave a deposit and plunked down airfare. It would be good for the dealer's reputation to try to accommodate the would-be buyer, instead of trying to blame him for the situation.

johnfm

Where I come from in Australia there's a word for this guy. Well, actually there's a few. What a ******!

Though I am really anti-litigation, I hope you become the most annoying litigant in the history of 'Paramount ******** Inc'.

Good luck.

drnd

Reponse to Brent at Paramount Porsche in Hickory, North Carolina:

Flight arrangements were made before the day I was called and informed that the car was sold. I have proof of date with the airline Co. and credit card confirmation. I spoke to Tim Herman, your partner, on May 7, 2005 to inquire about PPI at an independent shop. He was the one who referred me to him and offered to take the car to the shop. I made arrangements to have the car inspected at the independent shop with the owner himself. I called Tim back and left a voice message asking him call the independent shop and take the car for inspection as offered. Was that ever done? I don't think so.

As a buyer I have the right to inspect the car as recommend by my peers. It doesn't matter if the car was privately owned or from a dealer.

Now that you have acknowledge that I left my credit card for the deposit. I assumed that this was a hold on the car. You never explained to me that this was valid for a limited time. If I was not serious about purchasing the car, why would I have left my credit card and made flight and lodging arrangments. By giving you the credit card number I assumed that you would run it. That's your decision. Maybe you did not run the card to hold out for a better offer. You knew I was coming from california. If the hold was for a limited time, it would have been courteous to notify me of it.

You fax me a cover letter to: 1) request my name, address, driver's license, insurance etc. 2) Credit application for financing. Why do I need to return a financing application if my financing is already in place for the full payment of the car. I don't think it is neccessary for you to run my credit when I was ready to pay the full price at time of deal. You mention that you waited for weeks and weeks. All this approimately took place over a time period of 1 week. From the time I left my credit card number(May 3,2005) and the call stating that the car was sold(May 10,2005) is seven days. My flight arrangements would have had me arriving today.

In response to your statement of my indecisiveness. I called you on May 3, 2005 to leave a credit deposit, and agreement of price. I called again on May 4, 2005 to request compression test and leak down test at my cost ( which was never done). Called again on May 7, 2005 to arrange inspection. I don't see any indecisiveness. I do see lack service on your part.

Since you mention ethics. Is it ethtical to request a deposit from me and then sell to someone else and then tell me after the fact?

There is one easy and simple way to handle this. All I ask is my reimbursement for my travel plans. I think that is fair. However, after talking to the sale manager apparently, "this will be taking a chunk out of his profit."


Nick.

Michael_Philippi

"We gave the car a full 120 point gold check inspection, the same inspection a pre-owned Porsche has to go through to become certified. The car checked out perfect, as it is a 1996 C4S with less than 25,000 miles on it. The car is/was perfect. However, there seems to be a lack of trust issue. We are a franchised Porsche dealer and pride ourselves in our reputation in the industry and how well we take care of our customers in all areas."

Is this customary, or required of Porsche dealers? Specifically, that cars taken in to be resold are inspected for obvious defects?

Thanks.
Michael

Michael_Philippi

Nick:
There is an Ocean blue/grey int 1997 C2s available in Orange County. Has about 60,xxxmiles. Seemed like a nice car. I drove the car, but ended up buying a Cab. PM me if you want more details.
Michael