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Gauging Interest in NEW 993 CCM BBK for 18" wheels
CCM technology is great for the track yet it’s benefits for the street are commonly overlooked. These benefits make a big impact on classic less powerful and less developed vehicles when compared to modern performance vehicles. As classic vehicles become more valuable, the desire to preserve them while also improving their usability is a common desire. For a long time, CCM technology was reserved for the latest and greatest supercars, but now it has become available for classic vehicles as well. Of course, the product is easier to implement on some vehicles than others but the 993 (and 964) platform lends well to this newly offered custom engineered bolt-on CCM solution.
As you may be aware, RacingBrake (RB) offers a high-performance kit for the 993 utilizing common CCM rotors (394/390mm) found on modern track cars such as the C6 Corvette ZR1, Camaro Z28, Viper ACRE. However, the typical 18” wheels found on these cars do not fit with this brake kit. So, new wheels and tires are required along with a new appearance.
That’s where this new product comes into play. This new kit will fit under most of the common 18” wheels (forged or 3 piece) found on our cars. And is specifically designed to complement the factory braking system. (See below for more details)
We are looking to gauge the market for this product and receive feedback. If it is well received and there is enough interest, we will go into production.
Please participate in the poll and leave a comment if you have any questions.
The primary goal of the system is to:
Improve performance to meet the modern conditions on and off track
Reduce brake dust without sacrificing noise or wheel choice. This option doesn’t require new wheels for most owners running 18". (A fitment check is always a good idea but these have been checked for compatibility with number of known combinations listed below)
Last edited by RacingBrake; 02-22-2021 at 05:13 PM.
PROs:
- Fully bolt-on (Fully compatible with rear drum brake)
- Fits under 18" 3 piece wheels (like Speedline CUP/993RS/GT2, Tramont Cup II, and BBS E88), factory 18" turbo twist wheels, etc.
- Engineered to play nice with factory brake bias, master cylinders, and ABS (may require a M/C swap with another factory 993 unit if you don't have the 25.4mm M/C)
- Reduces unsprung weight (quicker brake and suspension response)
- Reduces rotating mass (less inertia to accelerate as well as decelerate)
- Reduces braking distances (varied with brake pads used TBD)
- Reduces brake dust (literally none existence)
- Increases brake life, reduce brake maintenance
- Increases acceleration
- Increases thermal capacity (read: better on-track performance and more resistance to brake fade)
- fully reversible
- Replacement rotor rings are interchangeable with 996/997 GT3 pccb and available at fractional cost of Porsche dealer
Last edited by RacingBrake; 02-22-2021 at 04:17 PM.
CONS:
Costs for the system would be in-line with other kits for Porsche. Pricing would probably be around $15,000-$16,000, but considering this to be a custom system kit design with standard components (disc and pad) the cost is only fraction of any similar legitimate kits in the market.
Tech info: Technical info: Rotors- Front 350mmx34mm *Effective rotor diameter = 285mm 410mm diameter to the outermost caliper point
Rear 350x28mm with OEM parking brake compatibility. Effective rotor diameter = 297mm 400 mm diameter to the outermost caliper point Calipers- Front 32/34/36mm pistons ; Rear 32/34mm pistons Coefficient of Friction = .45 F/R hydraulic bias = 1.594 Pedal ratio with 25.4mm master cylinder (recommended and stock for 993GT, TT, RS, C4S, C4 and 964RS) = 35.067 Pedal ratio with 23.81 mm master cylinder = 39.94 Brake TQ @ 70bar without PV = 2914 nm Front, 1798 nm rear (1.530 net bias) Brake TQ @ 70 bar with 55bar PV = 2914 nm Front, 737 nm rear (3.326 net bias) *removing the PV isn’t required but can be beneficial for track use*
Of note, these rotors are the same size as the 996 PCCB option but using modern tech/construction methods. The 350mm CCM rotor size is also becoming more and more common and a selection of CCM type pads and OEM or replacement rotors are on the market.
Personally I think you should focus on releasing your lightweight steel rotors first. The rear ones. I would buy. But you said you need 9 more people. That was more than a year ago...
So if 10 people aren't available for just normal lightweight steel rotors, I cant see 10 people being available for CCM.
This CCM kit was initiated by a 993 enthusiast (Stewart W.) who has been contributing to this thread which he hopes can lead to the production.
Stock replacement two piece rotors are relatively easy to replicate as anyone would know in this forum, but certainly not a high profile CCB system brake kit like this.
This kit is intended for those who are looking for a modern new brake technology but not available in Porsche earlier model like 993 but not trying to "promote" to those who are happy with stock or other iron brake kit set up.
Application engineering analysis was done so was the design as proven on assembly drawings which is to assure members, with numbers and dimensions, that this ccb brake system will be built properly in fitment as well as performance improvement and durability that you can expect.
If 5 or more pre-orders are committed this will be a go project - The one that we (RB) are keenly interested in making it happen so that 993 owners can proudly show off and compare to those who owned 996/997/991 GT3 with factory pccb, so let's work together as a partner and treat this is your project but subcontract to RB for design and construction, if we have 10+ people join the project the "complete brake system" cost can be as low as $12k - Comparable to those iron brake kits offered from others (Brembo or AP), or two OE pccb rotors.
This kit is intended for those who are looking for a modern new brake technology but not available in Porsche earlier model like 993 but not trying to "promote" to those who are happy with stock or other iron brake kit set up.
Application engineering analysis was done so was the design as proven on assembly drawings which is to assure members, with numbers and dimensions, that this ccb brake system will be built properly in fitment as well as performance improvement and durability that you can expect.
If 5 or more pre-orders are committed this will be a go project - The one that we (RB) are keenly interested in making it happen so that 993 owners can proudly show off and compare to those who owned 996/997/991 GT3 with factory pccb, so let's work together as a partner and treat this is your project but subcontract to RB for design and construction, if we have 10+ people join the project the "complete brake system" cost can be as low as $12k - Comparable to those iron brake kits offered from others (Brembo or AP), or two OE pccb rotors.
In my research, $12k for a well engineered PCCB rotor+caliper+mount+line brake system is the best deal going. Especially for a specialized kit like this. I know commitment for 10+ kits is needed but I think that's achievable. It's a good chunk of money but as mentioned regular iron BBKs for these cars typically run in that territory cost-wise, they typically require larger or monobloc wheels, and negatively impact the brake application dynamics. IMO, this is a well thought out kit for our cars and improves them without compromise. Everything is just bolt on. So, if you have a high value car like a 993RS, GT2, Turbo S, Turbo and want to improve your braking and suspension performance without altering your car or wheel appearance, this is the ticket. It's also the ticket if you like what CCM technology brings to the table and have any other car with the 25.4mm master cylinder. Lastly, it's also the ticket if you fall into that category but have the 23.8mm master cylinder. It is compatible with that and the master cylinder can be swapped to the 25.4mm unit if you want to improve the performance further.
For reference, it looks like the front calipers on this kit are the same as the replacement calipers for the 991 GT3 (but with a smaller rotor). This gives a good idea of what the components are.
In addition:
Pads for the front look to be the same as the Mustang GT500
Rear pads are the same as the Nissan GTR or Brembo GT40 BBK front pads
**Correct me if I'm wrong.
Of note, the comparably sized Brembo GT BBK kit for our cars appears to have more front hydraulic bias than factory cars equipped with the 25.4mm master cylinder (1.77 vs 1.472-1.572) besides the 993TT which is very front biased at 2.061.... The Brembo kit also has more master/slave ratio (leg effort).
The RB 18" CCM BBK has a 1.59 f/r hydraulic bias ratio which is good and a master/slave ratio slightly higher than stock (less effort) but very close to that of a 964RS, 993RS, and 996 GT3 equipped with PCCBs.
The torque bias numbers tell the same story between the two kits. 1.53 f/r torque ratio for the RB 18" CCM BBK and 1.83 for the Brembo BBK. The RB kit has more overall torque as well.
Concluding, the RB 18" CCM BBK kit is closer to ideal in both areas.
Happy to run the numbers on other BBKs if anyone has them. I will say, the Brembo GT BBK kit looks like it may be designed for the 23.8mm master cylinder and is fairly well suited for that. It is still expensive for a BBK and you don't get all of the benefits of the CCM technology.
993 equipped with the 25.4mm Master Cylinder from factory are:
C4
C4 Cab
4S
Carerra RS M002 and M003
Turbo
Turbo S
GT2
*the 964RS also has this size m/c
Your understanding on components are all correct although I can add more details:
1. The front 6 pot 6M2 caliper is made for a "direct" replacement (no spacer/adaptor) for 993 w/standard brakes except:
RB 6 pot calipers have differential bores (32/34/36) vs. (OE's 30/30/30) to minimize the taper wear
Pistons are of stainless steel vs. OE's phenolic purk which is venerable to breakage
RB Calipers use internal dust seal vs. OE's dust boots which not only will never crack but act as a back-up seal to brake fluid
Calipers are made with open top for easy pad inspection and replacement vs. OE close top which must be detached for pad change.
2. The rear caliper 4M3 is made for 993 rear replacement (w/adaptor), w/32/34 pistons vs. OE's 30/30mm
3. The brake pads are of standard FMSI shape as indicated by S.White - They were carefully selected for a good aspect ratio (width/depth), popularity, and easy to find/replace.
4. The front rotor is fully compatible with 996/997 GT3 pccb front
5. The rear rotor - Disc is interchangeable with 996/997 pccb rear
02-22-2021, 03:56 PM
Gauging Interest in NEW 993 CCM BBK for 18" wheels
