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In the interest of transparency, I want the board to be made aware that S.White has been a driving force to solicit the needed-total of five buyers for these carbon brakes and that he's reached out to Rennlist sponsor RacingBrake to fabricate these kits; as such, it would be natural to assume that S.White is "in for a set."
In the interest of transparency, I want the board to be made aware that S.White has been a driving force to solicit the needed-total of five buyers for these carbon brakes and that he's reached out to Rennlist sponsor RacingBrake to fabricate these kits; as such, it would be natural to assume that S.White is "in for a set."
Yep. Thanks, Mark. That is correct.
To add some more background to how this potential product came to be, I'm a big fan of CCM brakes. I have them on my track car and I have them on my daily. They are great for both purposes. Would love to have them on my 993TT but don't want 19" wheels on it. So, when I started seeing specialty aircooled restomod builders like Singer and Guntherwerks offering CCM brake options, I looked into what those systems entailed and if they were even offered at approachable prices to the secondary market. They were not. So, I told myself it wasn't worth pursuing because it couldn't be done without some sort of big undertaking to bring a product like that to market. I don't have the time, energy, or credibility to bring a product like that to market myself.
So, time passed and after it kept eating at me, I starting researching things a bit further. I had researched all the available rotors from various manufacturers, custom rotor hat manufacturers, various caliper designs and options, and came to the conclusion the real hurdle is designing and producing the rotor hats, caliper mounts, and knowledge on how to put a full system together to function well for a given platform/vehicle.
So, I reached out to Racing Brake, asked if they would entertain putting a system like that together, bring it to market, and asked what it would cost to do. Their response was they were interested as long as there was enough interest in the product. They asked me to find at least 5 customers interested in the system they put together. I thought to myself, "Great! 5 customers? That's it? Surely there are 4 folks besides me with 993s or 964RSs on 18" wheels that would be interested. I'll post a poll on Rennlist and see how much traction there is there."
Some of you may remember seeing that post on here for a few fleeting moments before it was taken down due to not being a sponsor. That's my bad. I only saw it as a hypothetical and didn't see the harm or foul in posting a poll about the product idea. I had reviewed the guidelines prior and the way I understood them at the time, it seemed to me like it didn't violate any rules. That was never my intention. Anyways, it wasn't inline with the forum rules and Mark and I discussed it privately.
So, I voiced the concern with Racing Brake and they obliged to make this post to gauge interest.
I have nothing to gain from this. Well, besides scratching an itch I've had for years and access to the product as Racing Brake has designed at market pricing just like any paying customer.
Weren't either the 996 or maybe the cayman/boxter ceramic rotors 350mm? Can't you just adapt those?
Yes, I know that Porsche offered 350x34mm and 350x28mm PCCBs front and rear for the 996. They also ran a 25.4mm master cylinder if I'm not mistaken. So, you could do that and in theory end up with a similar spec system. However, the rotors and calipers are dated technology and would require custom new rotor hats, caliper mounts, and likely brake lines. You may also loose your parking brake if the rotor hats aren't designed properly. In addition, the Porsche rotors would probably cost as much as this entire RB system.... If you were to try to fit the Porsche/Brembo calipers, the front hydraulic and torque bias would increase vs. this RB kit too. Not too bad but not as good.
More work, more money, less performance, and then trusting in whoever designs the custom hats and caliper mounts with the braking ability of your vehicle...
Consider this system an improved set of 996 GT3 PCCBs for your 993 at a lower price.
To add some more background to how this potential product came to be, I'm a big fan of CCM brakes. I have them on my track car and I have them on my daily. They are great for both purposes.
This is an interesting statement because most Porsche and Corvette trackers replace their factory ceramic brakes with iron because of the ceramic's HUGE replacement cost.
Now on a street car, factory ceramic brakes will last forever.
Therefore, I would disagree that they are great for both purposes as you suggest.
Finally, for $15k, I can rebuild my top-end, replace the clutch, get new Pilot Sports, etc., rather than 'fix' an already strong-point of the 993 - its brakes.
This is an interesting statement because most Porsche and Corvette trackers replace their factory ceramic brakes with iron because of the ceramic's HUGE replacement cost.
Now on a street car, factory ceramic brakes will last forever.
Therefore, I would disagree that they are great for both purposes as you suggest.
Finally, for $15k, I can rebuild my top-end, replace the clutch, get new Pilot Sports, etc., rather than 'fix' an already strong-point of the 993 - its brakes.
Never had to replace the rotors on the 2 track cars with PCCBs I've had. Maybe 3-4 thousand track miles on each (so not a huge amount but a fair amount). Pads for sure but not the rotors. If/when I need to do that, I'll get the aftermarket rotors that are now available and likely still be money ahead versus the PCCB>iron>iron?>iron?>PCCB route.
What has been your experience with the PCCBs and tracking with them? Always open to more data points.
In my conversations with folks at the track, most preemptively swap to irons because they see the price of replacements on the PCCBs but haven't actually had to replace them before. So, they go out and buy new iron rotors and pads, have them installed and store the PCCBs. Then, the idea is they swap the PCCBs back on when they go to sell/trade. At that point, the car presumably has like 5-10 thousand track miles on it or something like that (if they are lucky to get out there that much), they don't get their ROI for PCCBs at that point due to the obvious extensive track use and mileage, OR (if it doesn't have a bunch of track miles) have already burned the money for the new parts they may or may not have needed. Now they have wheels that have also seen lots of hot brake dust too.... so you might have to add a set of wheels to the equation. Your taking the depreciation hit on the car already, the PCCB brake option, and adding the cost of at least one iron set, additional labor and potentially wheels. I haven't run the exact numbers but I don't think it adds up.
YMMV and to each their own but I'd rather just swap rotors and pads when/if I needed. I have enough old parts laying around as it is. I also think it's the more economical route for my uses.
I don't know what to say about the cost comparison you mentioned. I don't think someone would do those things unless it was necessary, right? I guess you could also save a bunch of money by just not driving the car? Wouldn't even need to buy gas or register it! Haha
The CCM swap isn't necessary so I fail to understand the connection between the maintenance items you listed and a vehicle "upgrade". I believe this kit is aimed at improving the car/experience not necessarily save money in the long run (though it very well may). Less brake dust, more/safer performance, longer life between brake services, and maybe some sort of geeky/techy/style factor. To some folks, that's worth $12k-15k. If your brake pads, rotors, calipers are rough already, the cost differential to OEM replacement is even less.
I'm not trying to convince you to spend $12-15k on brakes you don't need. I don't know you, your financial situation, or how you use your cars. That's none of my business. It might make your car safer and give you a better experience but it's up to you to decide what that's worth.
System weight reduction vs. OEM 993TT Big Reds: I believe these numbers are accurate. Correct me if any are wrong.
Of note, the effects of the reduced rotating mass of the rotors give the benefit of increased WHP. How much? Well, to get an idea, a dyno was done on a Mitsubishi EVO that gained 12whp and 7 wtq from a 10lb reduction in rotor weight. (https://rightfootdown.com/opinions/g...-brake-rotors/)
More to it than a simple calculation BUT if you extrapolate those results to the weight reduction of the RB 350mm CCM system, you could increase power figures by 35whp and 17 wtq... pretty good IMO.
Cost to gain 35whp on these cars is pretty steep. Might even be a wash vs. the cost of the CCM brake system. So, there's that to consider if you're looking to extract more performance out of your car....
This CCB brake kit will be built with the finest quality components (rotors are made of long carbon fibers) and the latest brake technology; that's favored by the car enthusiasts like for Viper ACRE owners, but also trusted by a Porsche professional racer like David Donohue.
The kit is now set for order with 8-10 weeks leadtime.
https://racingbrake.com/rccb-por-993-1
Use Coupon code "993CCB-GB" at check out for 5+ orders price ($13,323) - Assume we can reach to 5 or more orders, if not price may be reverted and/or project cancelled.
I'm in a potential interested category but trying to wrap my brain around a final cost comparison to OEM.
My situation:
I need new rotors, brake pads, and have a set of FD Motorsports SS brake lines already in hand (still in packaging from group buy ??years?? ago).
For comparison sake, what is the cost (in parts) to replace OEM Rotors and brake pads?
Estimated $ achievable/ suggested for selling a set of "little reds" (aka. painted 993 calipers)?
Just to clarify, this will be a complete RCCB system kit with RB 6/4 pot calipers (retains rear emergency brakes) - Not a retrofit kit to any other Porsche OE calipers.
02-24-2021, 08:45 PM
