MEngineering vs. Softronic Tune
#31
Thats an interesting add-on to the story for sure but does not change his concern that the (upgraded) ME tune did not work properly with his upgraded GTS turbo's and the suggestion he got was to look into faulty injectors (at 1100 miles, does not matter how many months the tune was on the car but how many miles). So, his concern is more about the latter suggestion (point to something else in the car) vs getting the tune right. At least that is how I understand it.
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silverscooby27 (06-11-2024)
#32
We work with a variety of tuners on many different Porsche platforms. We are happy with the off the shelf M-Engineering, Cobb and Softronic tunes on the 992. We are probably the only entity in the world who dyno tests every combination of tune and hardware, etc. We have had 992 Carreras both PDK and manual just for that reason. We also test on street and track. I was personally testing two Stage 1 tunes on Saturday at the track with the Carrera T, datalogging to gather some additional insights. We also do a lot of custom tuning behind the scenes with various tuners so we have a wealth of experience that we hope to provide insights with.
We post as much information as we can but we've never aimed to pit any vendor against each other. We have a great respect for the vendors we offer and we vet vendors with rigor. We simply look for the best overall solution and value. This is why we have continued to recommend M-Engineering tunes due to deep research, development and experience coupled with performance and features. Let me stress, that people have their own unique requirements which is why we also don't rubber stamp a vendor because a particular solution might be better for one person over another. There are some simple things but we always welcome the opportunity to work one on one with folks to make sure they are focused on the right solution for them.
I've never seen a need to get into threads like these but since we were named I wanted to add some perspective. The client purchased and used the ME OTS map for over 2.5 months before upgrading turbos. We provide a free upgrade service on the tune when you purchase the GTS turbos through us. We provided a credit back to help offset some cost to the client as he was frustrated and wanted to use a different tuner. Obviously, we can't refund the full amount of something that was used without issues. It's a tough place but we thought the act of goodwill would help the client, not bring us into a thread like this. I'm glad things got sorted for the client and we're sorry things didn't work out regarding the 2nd ME tune. I can promise you that we continue to test, learn and develop on the 992 platform. We also take great pride in serving Porsche enthusiasts. Many folks who have worked with us understand this, we regret to see situations like this and we try our best to help. All the best, enjoy your driving!
- Jon
We post as much information as we can but we've never aimed to pit any vendor against each other. We have a great respect for the vendors we offer and we vet vendors with rigor. We simply look for the best overall solution and value. This is why we have continued to recommend M-Engineering tunes due to deep research, development and experience coupled with performance and features. Let me stress, that people have their own unique requirements which is why we also don't rubber stamp a vendor because a particular solution might be better for one person over another. There are some simple things but we always welcome the opportunity to work one on one with folks to make sure they are focused on the right solution for them.
I've never seen a need to get into threads like these but since we were named I wanted to add some perspective. The client purchased and used the ME OTS map for over 2.5 months before upgrading turbos. We provide a free upgrade service on the tune when you purchase the GTS turbos through us. We provided a credit back to help offset some cost to the client as he was frustrated and wanted to use a different tuner. Obviously, we can't refund the full amount of something that was used without issues. It's a tough place but we thought the act of goodwill would help the client, not bring us into a thread like this. I'm glad things got sorted for the client and we're sorry things didn't work out regarding the 2nd ME tune. I can promise you that we continue to test, learn and develop on the 992 platform. We also take great pride in serving Porsche enthusiasts. Many folks who have worked with us understand this, we regret to see situations like this and we try our best to help. All the best, enjoy your driving!
- Jon
BTW, do you know why MEng stopped providing revisions? I didn't verbally abuse anyone or refuse to try another revision. I just said no to an injector replacement which, as it turns out, I was right. Finally, I guess you decided not to respond to the email I sent yesterday and post something here instead?
Last edited by BarryC; 06-11-2024 at 10:58 AM.
#33
Thats an interesting add-on to the story for sure but does not change his concern that the (upgraded) ME tune did not work properly with his upgraded GTS turbo's and the suggestion he got was to look into faulty injectors (at 1100 miles, does not matter how many months the tune was on the car but how many miles). So, his concern is more about the latter suggestion (point to something else in the car) vs getting the tune right. At least that is how I understand it.
#34
Thanks. Maybe I should have said Flat6 needs to recommend more than one supplier. The thing that set me off the most was the suggestion that there was some kind of mechanical problem when the revisions didn't work. I talked to the lead tech at my local dealer about replacing injectors and he was skeptical. His skepticism was supported by the fact that the misfire faults occurred on cylinders 2,3,4 and 5 with each one occurring at different times/maps between loading the base GTS map and the last revision I received. The last communication I received from MEng was that if the "next" revision (which they never sent) didn't fix the issue, that I should run a Map 0 to see if the problem went away. They never sent the next revision even though I sent more datalogs. I did say I did not want to replace the injectors so I guess they gave up - don't know. Anyway, I removed the M-Tuner, the stutter/misfires went away i.e., the car ran fine with the stock tune. At that point, I decided to cut my losses and try Softronic.
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Fullyield (06-11-2024)
#35
Ahhh, do you think it is an unfair for you to criticize him for responding here after the critical comments you made in your OP? Not taking sides. Just think the vendors also have the same right to tell their side in response to your OP.
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CM991 (06-12-2024)
#36
BUT it is relevant to the reasonableness of the vendor response…..who was being criticized. And if the goal of the OP is to air the facts, then we should disclose all the true facts and let the consumers decide. As we have now flushed out, apparently there is a factual discrepancy on the performance of the ME tune before the turbo upgrade. Not dispositive…..but relevant facts all the same.
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dg108 (06-11-2024)
#37
...because the car will not run properly with no tune and upgraded turbo's?
#38
At first, I was uncomfortable removing the tune with the GTS turbos as I didn't know if the fuel trims would be out of whack. Definitely didn't want to do a pull, find the car was running lean and blow the motor. Based on feedback from Softronic that the stock tune would be ok, I removed the MTuner and the issue disappeared. This plus the movement of the misfire to different cylinders at different times, made me believe that the issue was tune related not injectors. I was convinced of this after I loaded the Softronic tune and had zero problems.
Last edited by BarryC; 06-11-2024 at 11:25 AM.
#39
At first, I was uncomfortable removing the tune with the GTS turbos as I didn't know if the fuel trims would be out of whack. Definitely didn't want to do a pull, find the car was running lean and blow the motor. Based on feedback from Softronic that the stock tune would be ok, I removed the MTuner and the issue disappeared. This plus the movement of the misfire to different cylinders at different times, made me believe that the issue was tune related not injectors. I was totally convinced of this after I loaded the Softronic tune and had zero problems.
#40
At first, I was uncomfortable removing the tune with the GTS turbos as I didn't know if the fuel trims would be out of whack. Definitely didn't want to do a pull, find the car was running lean and blow the motor. Based on feedback from Softronic that the stock tune would be ok, I removed the MTuner and the issue disappeared. This plus the movement of the misfire to different cylinders at different times, made me believe that the issue was tune related not injectors. I was convinced of this after I loaded the Softronic tune and had zero problems.
#41
So, ME did not suggest to do the same first before suggesting its the injectors? Did you tell them of your finding and how was their response then? btw, I personally think its gutsy to run upgraded turbo's w/o a tune...but I guess its okay as long as you don't stress it. But you also mentioned the misfires and such happen at higher RPM and I assume the ME tune run okay at low loads so running upgraded turbo's with no tune at low loads is a bit of a false negative to me to start with.
My response to MEng's email below:
Ran a couple more datalogs tonight. This one actually threw a misfire code P0304 Cylinder 4. With this map, it feels like it's continuously misfiring above 6k rpm.
So, this makes misfire faults on cylinders 2,3,4 and 5 since I started with the base GTS map. I will have a hard time grasping that all of these injectors could be an issue on a car with 1200 miles on it. I do not want to spend another $2k replacing injectors.
From: Scott Krugman (M-Engineering) <calibration@m-engineering.us>
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2024 6:03 PM
##- Please type your reply above this line -##
Your request (12227) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.
Scott Krugman (M-Engineering)
Jun 3, 2024, 15:03 PDT
Hey Barry,
The module faults will clear up with either a drive cycle or by locking the car and walking away with the key for 1-15 minutes and letting the car goto sleep.
If this next map is not better we might have you drive on a stage 0 and see if you are still experiencing a misfire. We have seen other Carreras have misfires and the fix was getting new injectors from Porsche, we have not heard of any of them being an electrical issue before.
Thanks,
Scott K.
Last edited by BarryC; 06-11-2024 at 11:57 AM.
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#43
So what is the conclusion drawn from switching tunes? Softtronic tune more conservative thus not creating the same problem? With others running the same turbo upgrades and M-Eng tune without issue, something specific to your car? Curious on your thoughts.
#44
- Car runs great. I've put 80 miles on it and have driven hard with no hiccups/issues.
- I can't say it's a conservative tune because the car is ridiculously fast. It much much faster than stock and doesn't feel any slower than the C8Z06 I traded for this car. I've also taken approx. 90lbs (20 in unsprung) out of the car with an Antigravity battery, wheels, brakes, cats/exhaust and converting the rear spoiler to a ducktail.
- Can't speak to why my experience is different from others.
Gratuitous pic below. BTW, that's my wife's Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo in the background - that too is a stupid fast car...
Last edited by BarryC; 06-11-2024 at 11:21 PM.
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#45
Just curious, with an engine having multiple misfires, is it possible for the engine to incur any damage? Also with running a tune and having said misfires, does the tune have some sort of protection that would kick in to prevent any damage?