Trading 992t for 991 gt3?
02-13-2024, 12:50 PM
#61
Either way, Numeric is a nice upgrade for both.
02-13-2024, 02:18 PM
#62
Numeric +1. I have had both. Numeric with stiffer spring is much better. Height of lever on Numeric is adjustable so you make it whatever you want. So whether height is shorter or longer is up to the Numeric owner/driver whereas factory height is not adjustable.
Last edited by Fullyield; 02-13-2024 at 02:21 PM.
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GeorgeA (02-13-2024)
02-13-2024, 03:10 PM
#64
Agree. But the height of the shifter is not shorter than the Numeric unless the owner of the Numeric chooses to make it that way. I set mine in the middle of the range but I can raise or lower the height at any time. I could not do that with my OEM short shifter.
02-13-2024, 03:59 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
OP: I went from a 991.2 Carrera T to a 992 GT3 - both were manual. I've owned the GT3 for just over 2 years now, and have had plenty of time to absorb what the car is all about and how it compares to the last generation T. My move isn't what you're contemplating, but my impressions may nevertheless be helpful. The 991.2 and 992 CTs share the same engine. And the 9K masterpiece in the GT3 has merely evolved from the 991.1 generation to present (though beware reliability issues with the 991.1).
First, nothing - and I mean nothing - matches the reality of a foot-to-the-floor race to 9,000 rpm in which you have to take one hand off the wheel to shift. It becomes a different car as you crest 6,000 and head towards redline. The power seems to come out of nowhere, and - at the very top end - is explosive. The shriek magnifies the effect. Honestly, there are times that I find it borderline frightening - light car, over 500hp, MT, and RWD. It's an experience like no other. The 991.1 won't give you the manual, of course, but the PDK is a wonder and its own source of fun. Those redline shifts are going to be an event, either way.
Second, although the 992 GT3 is known for a more punishing drive, I haven't found it much different than my Carrera T with SPASM. Importantly, my GT3 rides on Pirelli Corsas. I hear that the Michelin PS Cup 2s are a different beast. I'd suspect that a 991.1 GT3 will be firmer than your T, but not dramatically so if you spec'd the T with SPASM.
None of what I wrote will come as much of a surprise, I'm sure, but this part might: I sometimes miss my Carrera T.
Yes, it's always a joy driving the GT3 - even at low RPM, the immediate throttle response makes the car feel faster than it is. But the GT3 can be frustrating when you're stuck on ordinary roads. At least with the 992 GT3, you need to hit 50 mph before the chassis wakes up. Beyond such speeds, the car feels truly alive - the slightest movement of the wheel causes the car to dive toward its new direction. At more pedestrian speeds, though, the car has yet to wake up. And then there's the challenge of experiencing the power band. First-gear pulls are traction limited. You need real space to do even a second-gear run to 9K. The engine starts singing at 4K, power starts to build quicker at 5, but the party really starts as you climb beyond 6-7. By then, you're hitting some speed and making a lot of noise as you do it. In a world of cameras, speed traps, traffic, and - most importantly - the need to ensure that everyone on the road around you is safe, there are real limits to achieving the GT3's potential. But, wow, it really is something when you max it out.
The lightly boosted 3.0 in the Carrera T is a magnificent engine. No, it's no GT unit. But it has its own charms. My 2018 CT had sharp throttle response. I *loved* how Porsche controls the boost in the T so that power builds progressively rather than in a single kick. I don't know whether the 992 CT has the same, following feature, but I suspect that it does: Porsche designed the 991.2 T's engine so that valves open at ~ 3.5K, just as boost builds. The combination of sound and power was magic. On smaller back roads, you can dig into the T's performance in a way that you just can't with a GT3. The turbo engine gives you its performance sooner, and there's real joy to be found in that.
I also noticed that, with the 991.2's narrow-body setup, the rear on my CT was much less stable than the GT3. My CT liked to rotate! (It gave me the occasional scare.) The GT3, by contrast, is planted and all business. This may not be as significant a change for you given the 992 base case.
Good luck with your choice. The right decision depends entirely on your preferences and situation. FWIW, though, I think that the Carrera T is a fabulous car with a marvelous engine. The GT3 will give you something different, and - in some respects - clearly better. But it'd be an older car, out of warranty, subject to its own demerits relative to your T, and with an engine that history has shown not to be bulletproof. If I were you, I'd keep the T unless you get a 991.2 or 992 GT3. And, even then, ask yourself - when you're not entranced by the prospect of the next, exciting thing (something I certainly fall prey to) - will you really have more fun in the GT3 on most of your drives?
I don't plan ever to sell my GT3. It's a special car. In a time of electrification and, for ICE cars, homogenization - the GT3 represents something else entirely. I love it every time I drive it, and - if you're after driving thrills - the GT3 at redline will give them to you. But I also miss my Carrera T, and suspect that you would, too. In a perfect world, one would have a both (and sure a TTS for good measure!).
First, nothing - and I mean nothing - matches the reality of a foot-to-the-floor race to 9,000 rpm in which you have to take one hand off the wheel to shift. It becomes a different car as you crest 6,000 and head towards redline. The power seems to come out of nowhere, and - at the very top end - is explosive. The shriek magnifies the effect. Honestly, there are times that I find it borderline frightening - light car, over 500hp, MT, and RWD. It's an experience like no other. The 991.1 won't give you the manual, of course, but the PDK is a wonder and its own source of fun. Those redline shifts are going to be an event, either way.
Second, although the 992 GT3 is known for a more punishing drive, I haven't found it much different than my Carrera T with SPASM. Importantly, my GT3 rides on Pirelli Corsas. I hear that the Michelin PS Cup 2s are a different beast. I'd suspect that a 991.1 GT3 will be firmer than your T, but not dramatically so if you spec'd the T with SPASM.
None of what I wrote will come as much of a surprise, I'm sure, but this part might: I sometimes miss my Carrera T.
Yes, it's always a joy driving the GT3 - even at low RPM, the immediate throttle response makes the car feel faster than it is. But the GT3 can be frustrating when you're stuck on ordinary roads. At least with the 992 GT3, you need to hit 50 mph before the chassis wakes up. Beyond such speeds, the car feels truly alive - the slightest movement of the wheel causes the car to dive toward its new direction. At more pedestrian speeds, though, the car has yet to wake up. And then there's the challenge of experiencing the power band. First-gear pulls are traction limited. You need real space to do even a second-gear run to 9K. The engine starts singing at 4K, power starts to build quicker at 5, but the party really starts as you climb beyond 6-7. By then, you're hitting some speed and making a lot of noise as you do it. In a world of cameras, speed traps, traffic, and - most importantly - the need to ensure that everyone on the road around you is safe, there are real limits to achieving the GT3's potential. But, wow, it really is something when you max it out.
The lightly boosted 3.0 in the Carrera T is a magnificent engine. No, it's no GT unit. But it has its own charms. My 2018 CT had sharp throttle response. I *loved* how Porsche controls the boost in the T so that power builds progressively rather than in a single kick. I don't know whether the 992 CT has the same, following feature, but I suspect that it does: Porsche designed the 991.2 T's engine so that valves open at ~ 3.5K, just as boost builds. The combination of sound and power was magic. On smaller back roads, you can dig into the T's performance in a way that you just can't with a GT3. The turbo engine gives you its performance sooner, and there's real joy to be found in that.
I also noticed that, with the 991.2's narrow-body setup, the rear on my CT was much less stable than the GT3. My CT liked to rotate! (It gave me the occasional scare.) The GT3, by contrast, is planted and all business. This may not be as significant a change for you given the 992 base case.
Good luck with your choice. The right decision depends entirely on your preferences and situation. FWIW, though, I think that the Carrera T is a fabulous car with a marvelous engine. The GT3 will give you something different, and - in some respects - clearly better. But it'd be an older car, out of warranty, subject to its own demerits relative to your T, and with an engine that history has shown not to be bulletproof. If I were you, I'd keep the T unless you get a 991.2 or 992 GT3. And, even then, ask yourself - when you're not entranced by the prospect of the next, exciting thing (something I certainly fall prey to) - will you really have more fun in the GT3 on most of your drives?
I don't plan ever to sell my GT3. It's a special car. In a time of electrification and, for ICE cars, homogenization - the GT3 represents something else entirely. I love it every time I drive it, and - if you're after driving thrills - the GT3 at redline will give them to you. But I also miss my Carrera T, and suspect that you would, too. In a perfect world, one would have a both (and sure a TTS for good measure!).
This pretty much summed up my test drive but with much more depth. I honestly found the GT3 to be a bit boring on our back roads because the limits are so high. That front end steering feel and grip is something else!
02-13-2024, 04:01 PM
#67
Curious why you would want the GT4's 400 hp 8000 RPM redline engine instead of the GT3's 500 hp 9000 RPM redline engine. Is it purely due to cost considerations? Not that Porsche will be making any non-GT N/A 911s anytime soon so this is all moot.
02-14-2024, 12:46 AM
#68
The weight really depends on the build - some S models with RWS come with the lighter battery as standard (mine did). Lightweight glass is an option but the difference is very minimal. Sound deadening is an interesting one because my S is SO loud inside while cruising, I think it doesn't have much sound deadening to begin with so I doubt a few feet of foam will weigh much. These are just very minimal differences and no one would even feel that weight anyways. Even rear seats don't weigh much. Issue is, all 911's are designed so heavily with weight in mind (pun intended), that besides the larger items (like AWD, PDK, sunroof, heavier seats etc) there isn't much you can take out. Good example is the GT3t vs S/T - I believe the difference was around 33 pounds which is nothing given the extent they had to go to get there.
As far as the shifter, I would recommend the Numeric unit as it's the best one you can get - I have that in my S and no factory shifter really comes close to it - it's perfection.
As far as the GT3 - it's a tough one for me. I'm coming from M3's and the S already feels very low, stiff and rather a bit inconvenient as a daily (I absolutely love dallying it still). The GT3 might be a little too much for my use to be honest. Granted I'll still get one when the time comes but it will be hard giving up the S as it does everything so well (and is an absolute joy on the track). I also love the power and torque this engine makes with a tune, it's borderline uncivilized.
As far as the shifter, I would recommend the Numeric unit as it's the best one you can get - I have that in my S and no factory shifter really comes close to it - it's perfection.
As far as the GT3 - it's a tough one for me. I'm coming from M3's and the S already feels very low, stiff and rather a bit inconvenient as a daily (I absolutely love dallying it still). The GT3 might be a little too much for my use to be honest. Granted I'll still get one when the time comes but it will be hard giving up the S as it does everything so well (and is an absolute joy on the track). I also love the power and torque this engine makes with a tune, it's borderline uncivilized.
*Supposedly the GTS loses 3.6 lbs of sound insulation (compared to the S) and another 4.4 lbs with the Lightweight Pkg so, yea, like the lightweight glass (8 lbs) it's not much - it's more about adding sound than subtracting weight. I've always wondered how much sound insulation the T loses compared to the GTS (again, from a sound perspective - either way it's a trivial amt of weight). I'm not obsessed with trivial amts of weight (tho I'm curious cz I like stats) - I added the rear seat to my T just cz I think it looks nice.
The lack of a shorter shift lever likely wouldn't be as big a deal but I do prefer not to modify my car - not that changing that is a big deal.
According to Porsche, the weight difference between the GT3T & the S/T is more significant - they list the GT3T at 3223 lbs and the S/T at just 3056 lbs. Not that I have a shot at either!
02-14-2024, 12:51 AM
#69
Drifting
No question the weight depends on the build - I was thinking of my own S build vs my T build, keeping them as close as possible. The only exceptions (that I'd have any control over) being that my S would lack RAS so it'd have a reg battery vs lithium and I'd skip the lightweight glass in an S too. Whatever the actual difference in weight would be for my builds (S vs T) I would not notice it - my concern with the lack of reduced sound insulation* in the S vs the T is only wondering if an S would be noticeably quieter and "less raw" sounding than a T. That I might miss - I actually wish my T were even louder so going to something quieter would be a significant negative to me.
*Supposedly the GTS loses 3.6 lbs of sound insulation (compared to the S) and another 4.4 lbs with the Lightweight Pkg so, yea, like the lightweight glass (8 lbs) it's not much - it's more about adding sound than subtracting weight. I've always wondered how much sound insulation the T loses compared to the GTS (again, from a sound perspective - either way it's a trivial amt of weight). I'm not obsessed with trivial amts of weight (tho I'm curious cz I like stats) - I added the rear seat to my T just cz I think it looks nice.
The lack of a shorter shift lever likely wouldn't be as big a deal but I do prefer not to modify my car - not that changing that is a big deal.
According to Porsche, the weight difference between the GT3T & the S/T is more significant - they list the GT3T at 3223 lbs and the S/T at just 3056 lbs. Not that I have a shot at either!
*Supposedly the GTS loses 3.6 lbs of sound insulation (compared to the S) and another 4.4 lbs with the Lightweight Pkg so, yea, like the lightweight glass (8 lbs) it's not much - it's more about adding sound than subtracting weight. I've always wondered how much sound insulation the T loses compared to the GTS (again, from a sound perspective - either way it's a trivial amt of weight). I'm not obsessed with trivial amts of weight (tho I'm curious cz I like stats) - I added the rear seat to my T just cz I think it looks nice.
The lack of a shorter shift lever likely wouldn't be as big a deal but I do prefer not to modify my car - not that changing that is a big deal.
According to Porsche, the weight difference between the GT3T & the S/T is more significant - they list the GT3T at 3223 lbs and the S/T at just 3056 lbs. Not that I have a shot at either!
02-14-2024, 12:59 AM
#70
Yes. I own a 2023 992 Carrera T - I did ED back in August and it was delivered to the US in mid-October. Did 2300 miles in Europe and now have 3900 miles on it. I drove a Carrera S on the Leipzig test track but I didn't drive it back to back with my T since the Leipzig idiots didn't get my tourist tags until the following day. Everyone has different sound preferences - hell, I think my M2 is also too quiet. I'm sure I'd love a noisy GT3.
02-14-2024, 02:21 AM
#71
Drifting
Yes. I own a 2023 992 Carrera T - I did ED back in August and it was delivered to the US in mid-October. Did 2300 miles in Europe and now have 3900 miles on it. I drove a Carrera S on the Leipzig test track but I didn't drive it back to back with my T since the Leipzig idiots didn't get my tourist tags until the following day. Everyone has different sound preferences - hell, I think my M2 is also too quiet. I'm sure I'd love a noisy GT3.
02-14-2024, 08:10 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
If I was only doing track work, the GT3 hands down would be my choice in either 991.2 or 992, but for the roads around here and my use case a Carrera makes more sense. Plus I get to enjoy my N/A Manual Cayman S when I want to hear some music and to me its like 85% of the sound of a GT3 anyways.
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AlterZgo (02-14-2024)
02-14-2024, 10:48 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
my progression
991.2s —> 991 gt3 and 992 c2s —> 991 gt3 and 992tts —-> 992 gt3 and 992 tts
992 tts is an amazing car for daily, 991 gt3 is an amazing toy for pleasure drives..
992 gt3 is a weapon… no cars better or worse just different
fwiw I found my 992 carrera with spasm an rws too soft
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M3Inline6 (02-15-2024)
02-14-2024, 10:50 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Because they would be using the current 7 speed manual and i'd imagine that combo would be easier to wind out in a few gears on the street, add the fact that we are most likely seeing a significant weight loss against the platform mate 3.0tt and I'd think it would make for a very special "touring" package. It's just a pipe dream anyways. I loved the GT3 4.0 that I drove but unless you have stupid low gearing you get to enjoy very little if any of that glorious 9000rpm on the street.
If I was only doing track work, the GT3 hands down would be my choice in either 991.2 or 992, but for the roads around here and my use case a Carrera makes more sense. Plus I get to enjoy my N/A Manual Cayman S when I want to hear some music and to me its like 85% of the sound of a GT3 anyways.
If I was only doing track work, the GT3 hands down would be my choice in either 991.2 or 992, but for the roads around here and my use case a Carrera makes more sense. Plus I get to enjoy my N/A Manual Cayman S when I want to hear some music and to me its like 85% of the sound of a GT3 anyways.
02-15-2024, 12:45 AM
#75
I don’t agree with this at all.
my progression
991.2s —> 991 gt3 and 992 c2s —> 991 gt3 and 992tts —-> 992 gt3 and 992 tts
992 tts is an amazing car for daily, 991 gt3 is an amazing toy for pleasure drives..
992 gt3 is a weapon… no cars better or worse just different
fwiw I found my 992 carrera with spasm an rws too soft
my progression
991.2s —> 991 gt3 and 992 c2s —> 991 gt3 and 992tts —-> 992 gt3 and 992 tts
992 tts is an amazing car for daily, 991 gt3 is an amazing toy for pleasure drives..
992 gt3 is a weapon… no cars better or worse just different
fwiw I found my 992 carrera with spasm an rws too soft
992 TTS is very well engineered and a clear step up from the 991.2 TT/S, IMO. The steering in particular is excellent. Objectively speaking, it's nearly perfect. I just got bored with it as a weekend, event car.