Bezlar

I would assume most of Porsche’s final tunes come down to emissions and how to squeeze out less. Like putting start stop on these cars. Come on already, I’m sure that is worse on the motors than a tune. Just saying.

Drew46

Charles,

Let me start by saying that I hold you and ME in the absolute highest regard and, if I do decide to tune my car, it would 100% be with ME. The question I have - and it may be a very dumb one - is this: if Porsche were to look, wouldn't they be able to see that the car has been running at levels that are outside of the parameters of the factory tune? I assume the re-flash back to stock does not delete the history as that would, in and of itself, be a telltale. Again, please take this question in the manner it is meant - curiosity, not challenging or attacking.

M Engineering

These cars do not have a black box, so a history is not recorded in the car. If a car were to throw a trouble code or CEL for example, the car's ECU will save what is called "freeze frame" data from that segment of error. That is something that could be viewed by a dealer. However, when you flash back to stock with your supplied Uninstall file, this data freeze frame data is reset. There would be nothing to see. I have yet to hear of any warranties denied due a tune discovery after flashing back to stock.

At the end of the day, you are tuning your car which may or may not void your warranty, and may or may not be "friendly" with a dealership you have a relationship with. It's always best to flash back to stock when you go into the dealer for simple service or any warranty work. It takes 5 minutes with our software. We make it as easy as possible.

-Charles@M

3rdpedal

I think it comes down to this. Neither your dealer nor PCNA should be able to tell you have tuned if you remember to flash back to stock prior to taking it in.

However, while the car has more 'bandwidth' available to it due to emissions, etc. than Porsche provides us and to which the tune helps us access, tuning is an at your own risk process. If you do something long-term to your engine as a result, that is on you. I would suspect that anyone doing a stage 1 tune and driving it on the street (canyon twistys and the like) will not affect their vehicle adversely and should not be concerned with engine stress. But, if you track your car and push it to the limits on a consistent basis, there is certainly more room for stress and the problems related to it. A stage 2 tune under that sort of driving would incur a higher level of risk. OR you may never have anything to worry about.

You could never tune your car and still stress the engine out, but obviously under those conditions your warranty should take care of you.

EDIT: After reading this thread I am more likely to get an ME tune in the near future, but like @AlterZgo I think did, I may start with more exhaust related items and leave the performance increase turned off initially, or at least until I'm closer to the end of my warranty. I like the idea of pushing the PSE to provide better sound, but not all the time, so that I can use normal mode when I want to be quieter.

PHX

Don't take this the wrong way, Charles, however I have read/heard (can't believe everything you read on the interweb) that some Ford dealerships and BMW dealerships would deny a warranty claim solely based on the fact that when they 'looked' at the car's history in the ECU the number of starts were very limited and therefore they assumed it had been run with a tune, then flashed back to stock. Realize I am extremely ignorant on this stuff nowadays and only now am just interested in eventually working a tune into my poverty spec base C2 cabriolet. I mean, last time I did anything was a plug and play box (Edge EZ) on my 2001 and 2004 Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesels, so that's been a few years.

I don't know if the M Engineering tune whenever you flash it or not, erases all the start cycles of the vehicle or not, however that is a clue that I could see pointing towards a tune.

And yes, at the end of the day, it is always your own personal responsibility to realize you are responsible for whatever effects and course of actions occur. I do like the fact that your tune allows you to refresh it back to stock whenever you wish. I don't like the fact it has to have a PC though...I'm an Apple guy all the way!

HappinessProcured

It would be nice if Porsche could give more of a wink-wink to "features" that are solely emissions related. Or does M-Engineering know, given the partnership with Porsche Motorsport NA? In particular, the quiet cold start and 100% valve open options that are offered..

AlterZgo

For those who want to modify their cars, I personally recommend they do it after initial break-in and you've driven it maybe another thousand miles or so to make sure there are no issues that crop up with a completely stock car. The logic of waiting until the warranty expires to do a mod like an ECU tune never made sense to me. Many people think they'd prefer to wait until the warranty expires to tune their car so that their warranty won't get voided... and while that's one way of looking at it, if you just take a few more logical steps, it doesn't make sense.

Let's say you tune the car at 3K miles and your engine blows up and the dealer voids the warranty. What will you do? You'd bite the bullet and rebuild the engine. Now let's say you wait until the warranty expires and you tune the car and your engine blows up. What will you do? You'd bite the bullet and rebuild the engine. So, either way - tune while in warranty or tune when out of warranty = exact same economic consequence.

So why should you tune while the car is relatively new? Because the car is in the best shape of it's life. None of the components are worn out. Your charge pipes are in good shape. Your intercooler is not leaking. Your air filters are relatively clean. Your fuel injectors are in tip top shape. Your spark plugs are fresh. Your tires are still new and the rubber is not years old. Your suspension components are in excellent shape. Your clutch has minimal wear. Ideally, you want to add power to your car when your car is running its best, not after 40K miles when warranty has expired.

Plus, you get maximum return for your tune. You are enjoying the tune on your car for almost the whole time you own it vs. waiting till warranty runs out then you are missing several years of fun w/ the tune. This goes for any other mod too - apperance, suspension, rims/tires... get it early so you enjoy it as much and long as possible.

3rdpedal

M Engineering site recommends changing spark plugs AND running tires other than OEM. I'm sure some of that is CYA language along with get the most performance out of what you paid for. Did you do any of that?

XrussianX

Agreed 100% about tuning early vs late in age of the car. Not to mention who knows what can happen in your life and you might not have the chance to tune in the future for many reasons

22992

I’m starting to come around to tune early. At least there is a 1% chance an engine issue will be covered under warranty. Out of warranty, 100% chance you are footing the bill.

Drew46

Charles, thank you. That is an excellent explanation. Not that I expected anything less. I only wish all companies provided the level of service and responsiveness that you guys do!

shrimp money

Another hypothetical.

Say you’re just cruising home and the engine blows. I assume there are certain codes that are present at the time of failure. At this point, you grab your laptop, and flash back to stock.

You have vehicle towed to dealer, they plug in to check codes, what would the ECU tell them? If you flashed back to stock, wouldn’t there be no codes present. And then, wouldn’t that be suspect to a dealership that the engine failed and threw no codes?

AlterZgo

Nope. I think they recommend gapping the stock spark plugs narrower but my car had 5K miles on it when I tuned it so I'm sure the stock plugs are fine. I have not experienced any issues at all now at 10.5K miles. And yeah, I could definitely use wider/stickier tires b/c even my lowly 91 octane stage 1 tune roasts my stock 305 pirellis with ease.

Again, it makes more sense to tune a car with 5K miles on it vs. 50K miles and out of warranty b/c the newer car has newer spark plugs, tires, turbos, etc.

AlterZgo

If I were in that situation, after the car died and I flashed to stock, I'd try to start the car again and it will then throw a bunch of codes upon start up - particuarly if the piston has shot thru the engine block.

But, honestly, if anyone is tuning their car, it's best to assume you will be paying out of pocket if the engine blows up. I appreciate being able to flash back to stock b/c when you take your car in for regular servicing, they may decide to update your ECU or something and that is not possible if you have an M Engineering tune on the car. Also, you may want the dealer to troubleshoot some other fault codes and warnings that come up occasionally and you'd want the stock ECU tune on there.

spdracerut

Personally, I've modified, tuned, and tracked (drag, auto-x, road courses) every vehicle I've owned the last 25 years. I've never had an engine issue. One of those cars, I owned from new. It was naturally aspirated and I put a turbo on it doubling the power at 80k miles. I sold it at 160k miles and the new owner beat the hell out of it and put an even bigger turbo on it. Basic rules: wait for the car to fully warm up before beating on it, change the oil often, keep up with maintenance (plugs, belts, etc) and do take it to redline often. Nothing worse for an engine than a bunch of short drives where the engine never gets fully warm and revs never get taken high. That's a recipe for oil sludge which leads to clogged oil galleries and toasted bearings. Another recipe for oil sludge is old oil. A tune isn't going to blow up your engine as long as you're not getting detonation, EGTs are in check, and the torque is within the strength limits of the engine components. There are guys who have been beating the hell out of this family of engines with bigger turbos and lots of boost and I haven't heard of a blown motor yet. You know what will blow the engine faster? Putting in cheap gas.