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While I haven't gone beyond my stage 1 91 octane map in my manual, I agree with this statement. The first time I installed my stage 1 tune in my manual and took it out for a test spin, in first gear, the car threw me back so hard that my hand literally slipped off the shift **** and I hit the rev limiter. I have found that the revs go up so fast, I am shifting at 6K RPMs to avoid hitting the rev limiter. I would imagine 93 octane stage 2 would be even more violent and E85 would basically be undrivable. But I'm sure there are those who are doing roll racing in a manual and appreciate having more pulling power in 3rd 4th and 5th gears. But there would be vastly less wear on the transmission and clutch when shifting in these higher gears. 90% of the wear to a manual clutch disk happens when launching off the line and doing a hard 1-2 shift. Doing a hard 1-2 shift in a tuned 992 will light up the rear tires like crazy.
You have to be really engaged and focused to drive a tuned manual transmission car fast. I have found this to be true in my tuned 992 S and my tuned F80 M3. There is no launch control and you have to manually modulate throttle and slipping of the clutch. You also have to shift really fast or you will hit the rev limiter. As you quickly row through the gears, you have to be precise so you don't accidentally money shift and blow up your $50K motor. All this to say if big power and max acceleration is your aim, you should've gotten a PDK.
I've been on the fence about getting a tune for my 7MT C2S (for a while I considered the RaceChip or whatever it is called for around $800 but that is piggyback and the install looked cumbersome and not sure how reputable they are). But I wasn't sure about whether I really wanted to boost the HP or if the tune would strain the manual as most of the M tuned cars seem to be PDKs. Good to know another MT driver has installed the tune.
However, lately I've wanted more out of my sound as the PSE is just not great. BUT I also didn't want it loud ALL the time, like coming in and out of my garage, neighborhood. Yet the car just doesn't have the growl that even my wife's Macan S does. Good to know the sound is that much more improved with the tune and I don't need to do any exhaust upgrades to get some more out of it. But mostly that it sounds like it is linked to the Chrono mode keeping the sound down in Normal mode. I wasn't sure if the physical exhaust upgrades were tied to the Chrono mode.
I may get the M tune after all and go with the exhaust related options but hold off on the performance options in the map for a bit. Good to know.
This thread was really helpful. Thanks to the OP and all the great responses.
Does adding this tune void the warranty or are there ways Re flash it when bringing in for service ..that’s always been my concern, giving dealers excuses for issues unrelated and blame bc I got a tune for example.
M-Tuner allows you to uninstall the tune and go back to true stock with a verified CALID and CVN. It only takes about 5 minutes! And once you are back from the dealer visit, putting the tune back on is also only about 5 minutes.
M-Tuner allows you to uninstall the tune and go back to true stock with a verified CALID and CVN. It only takes about 5 minutes! And once you are back from the dealer visit, putting the tune back on is also only about 5 minutes.
-Charles@M
Does the car keep any logs outside the ECU (e.g., boost pressure over time or something similar) that would allow them to know that the person is tuning and un-tuning it?
Does the car keep any logs outside the ECU (e.g., boost pressure over time or something similar) that would allow them to know that the person is tuning and un-tuning it?
Yes, it does.
Just depends on how hard and deep your dealer (or PAG) wants to dig if there is a warranty issue.
That is incorrect. It does not have a "black box" that stores values. There is "freeze frame" data that you can see in a PIWIS, but those get reset after a flash. So if you just flash back to stock those go away. It's just like doing a reset with a battery change for example.
That is incorrect. It does not have a "black box" that stores values. There is "freeze frame" data that you can see in a PIWIS, but those get reset after a flash. So if you just flash back to stock those go away. It's just like doing a reset with a battery change for example.
-Charles@M
Are you no longer selling OEM S/GTS turbo upgrade for the base 992 Carrera?
That is incorrect. It does not have a "black box" that stores values. There is "freeze frame" data that you can see in a PIWIS, but those get reset after a flash. So if you just flash back to stock those go away. It's just like doing a reset with a battery change for example.
-Charles@M
I am not saying you are wrong, but you are wrong.
I will let Petevb lay it out in this thread below.
That post and thread is for a different platform and ECU entirely so I'm not sure the point you are making. We have hundreds upon hundreds of hours exploring the stock ECU logic and programming at a code level and hundreds upon hundreds of hours on the dyno calibrating these cars. When you flash a car back to stock, using our software, M-Tuner, you are flashing back a true byte for byte stock file with a verified CALID and CVN. Any flash counters or freeze-frame data segments are also reset at that time. We spent a lot of time figuring that out so that going back to stock for dealer and warranty visits is non-hassle and worry-free.
I'm currently running a Stage II (91oct) tune with Soul Cat-less exhaust. Bang for the buck, how do you say no!? I'm in Colorado and running a 10.4 1/4 mile at over a mile high of altitude (7800 DA) @ Bandimere Speedway. This is also with a 21"/22" wheel/tire setup. M-engineering has been awesome to work with. Questions and tune revisions are handled extremely quickly and software has been a breeze to use. Did some data logging the last time out and hope to carve another tenth or 2 off my time. They'll also send a 100oct map for FREE! I've tuned a lot of cars and never gotten a totally different file for nothing. Super impressed all the way around!
That post and thread is for a different platform and ECU entirely so I'm not sure the point you are making. We have hundreds upon hundreds of hours exploring the stock ECU logic and programming at a code level and hundreds upon hundreds of hours on the dyno calibrating these cars. When you flash a car back to stock, using our software, M-Tuner, you are flashing back a true byte for byte stock file with a verified CALID and CVN. Any flash counters or freeze-frame data segments are also reset at that time. We spent a lot of time figuring that out so that going back to stock for dealer and warranty visits is non-hassle and worry-free.
-Charles@M
While I agree the ECU is different (991 versus 992), the same principles apply.
I really don't want to get into a shouting match with you, as I respect what M-Engineering is doing tuning cars (not just Porsche's, but all other brands that M-Engineering works with).
What I am saying is that people should understand what they are and are not getting when they tune with M-Engineering, or any other aftermarket tuner.
Reflashing the stock ECU is simply a cosmetic temporary fix.
A tune is going to be detectable.
If M-Engineering is so confident that their tune is completely undetectable, why not offer a piggyback warranty in the event that the Porsche OEM warranty is voided?
You literally posted nothing arguing your point. All you posted is that 5 years ago on a 991 is that the tuning from factory is more advanced than aftermarket and that more than likely a tuning shop could not tune nearly as much as factory can.
Porsche has global compliance, accountants, lawyers and shareholders. Not everything they make is based off the most optimal performance decision. Several aftermarket solutions can increase long-term reliability.
The 991.2 and 992 Carreras all share the same engine/internals. Turbo sizing and tuning are the only differences from a power standpoint...we'll wait 20 years and see if there are an empirical studies proving the base or S models were more reliable than the GTS.
You literally posted nothing arguing your point. All you posted is that 5 years ago on a 991 is that the tuning from factory is more advanced than aftermarket and that more than likely a tuning shop could not tune nearly as much as factory can.
yep. Takes me back to billy Madison. If you know you know.
04-11-2023, 12:54 PM
