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We know theres alot of power potential in the base engine ..but...
What about suspension and handling? I cant imagine throwing some lowering springs on a base will match a T with the SPASM, torque vectoring and limited slip even if one was not to opt for rear axle steering on a T.
Im anxiously waiting for your results with the Bilstein coilovers. interested to see if those will pick up the deficit the base has over a SPASM c2S .
M-engineering did mention somewhere about programming an e-,limited slip as a potential idea....
Either way.....keep up the good work!
We'll have a lot of impressions and data. I'm interested to see how the car behaves with more power as we go with larger turbochargers particularly on corner exit. The 992 base PASM with the stock ride height produced a bit of body roll and pitch making it feel a tad soft to me. I had the opportunity to run my 992 and 996 Carrera back to back on the track. My 996 has all new everything suspension, Ohlins R&T coilovers, Eibach sway bars, and Tarett adjustable end-links with a proper alignment (riding on Michelin P4S it also has a built 3.8L engine). The 992 was significantly faster, even in cornering speeds.
I haven't had the H&R setup on track yet but we have a small handling circuit we use by the shop to get a quick feel. The turn in is a lot better and the car sets a lot quicker. I noticed a little more oversteer but the tires weren't fully warm so that could have been a factor. I really need to get it out on the track to get real data but the car feels more direct. It seems like the base PASM works fine with the H&R springs. The ride height is perfect for me as well. I'm not a huge fan of the PTV on the 991.2 Carrera T (with PDK). I can feel the differential/vectoring processing real time. I suspect a PTV car will do better on the track with lap times as even on stock power, there are areas where the traction wanted to kick in a little (with PSM off).
In terms of needs, we've been doing this for a while with Carreras and Turbos. Porsche makes a great car that is capable of handling much more power than they provide stock. I don't see any major deficiencies in the platform with more power. It would only rear it's head on track when you are trying to put it down on slower/tighter corner exits. We just did a 991.2 Carrera (base) with GTS turbos, full bolt-ons, tuning, etc. that made about 525whp (~600HP crank) and that didn't have any issues on the street. A very fun car! We love the value of the modern Carreras.
Originally Posted by Flat6Motorsports;[url=tel:18501486
18501486[/url]]We have that written backwards but the data points are the same. Max should be the essentially the largest gain between the two runs, meaning you're making 101whp over stock at a certain RPM. The peak number is the highest overall number, so the top number is up 48whp over stock. The same applies to torque gains, one is the largest delta or increase and one is the largest absolute gain.
It seems Porsche underrates the base power. At the crankshaft, stock it makes roughly 430HP. With the M-Engineering tune it has 485HP at the crank. So basically just software gives you GTS power.
It's important to analyze the area under the curve both in HP and TQ. You can see the darker regions showing the gains.
Horsepower (WHP):
Once you are into the throttle and boost ramps, the power is quite obvious. It holds strong until about 6.5K rpms with huge gains over stock. This is common with turbocharged vehicles as increases to boost pressure can add torque/power pretty instantly. Up top the gains are not as dramatic because of the airflow restrictions in the stock intake/exhaust and the turbo geometry. To make more power up top, we'll need to increase airflow and reduce restriction. We'll do that through some bolt-ons and custom tuning here shortly. We'll also be doing the S/GTS (and Pure) turbochargers as well along in the build so will be able to compare the effect of turbo sizing. Torque (FT-LBS):
Here you can also see the massive increase to torque delivery which is what is making the power. This is a massive area under the curve! This is important because this is essentially a graph of "real world" feel. You're going to feel that huge increase in torque every time you push into the throttle. Most 992s will live in the 3-5K RPM range running around town and even having a little fun/joy with the car.
While area under the curve is impressive here, I wonder if smoothing out that massive torque bump at 3500 would have any effect on how the car feels? I’m sure it would slow the car down a tad, but maybe the car would feel more consistent? I don’t know. I’m not complaining, just wanting to understand. My old R53 mini coolper S has a peak between 3000-3800 that could be felt.
We'll have a lot of impressions and data. I'm interested to see how the car behaves with more power as we go with larger turbochargers particularly on corner exit. The 992 base PASM with the stock ride height produced a bit of body roll and pitch making it feel a tad soft to me. I had the opportunity to run my 992 and 996 Carrera back to back on the track. My 996 has all new everything suspension, Ohlins R&T coilovers, Eibach sway bars, and Tarett adjustable end-links with a proper alignment (riding on Michelin P4S it also has a built 3.8L engine). The 992 was significantly faster, even in cornering speeds.
I haven't had the H&R setup on track yet but we have a small handling circuit we use by the shop to get a quick feel. The turn in is a lot better and the car sets a lot quicker. I noticed a little more oversteer but the tires weren't fully warm so that could have been a factor. I really need to get it out on the track to get real data but the car feels more direct. It seems like the base PASM works fine with the H&R springs. The ride height is perfect for me as well. I'm not a huge fan of the PTV on the 991.2 Carrera T (with PDK). I can feel the differential/vectoring processing real time. I suspect a PTV car will do better on the track with lap times as even on stock power, there are areas where the traction wanted to kick in a little (with PSM off).
In terms of needs, we've been doing this for a while with Carreras and Turbos. Porsche makes a great car that is capable of handling much more power than they provide stock. I don't see any major deficiencies in the platform with more power. It would only rear it's head on track when you are trying to put it down on slower/tighter corner exits. We just did a 991.2 Carrera (base) with GTS turbos, full bolt-ons, tuning, etc. that made about 525whp (~600HP crank) and that didn't have any issues on the street. A very fun car! We love the value of the modern Carreras.
how much were the GTS turbos? no one has really presented options other than the pure turbo upgrades from m engineering. the m engineering do the tune for the GTS turbos?
Hey all, this is Jon from Flat 6 Motorsports. We recently picked up a 992 Carrera that we've done and will be doing a lot of testing and development on. I thought I'd start a thread to share some updates as we have data/testing results and pictures, info and insights.
We'll be testing about 15 different exhaust combinations, tuning, suspension, intercoolers, turbos, water/meth, etc.
Just a quick running list of parts/solutions we'll be testing:
M-Engineering ECU Tune
M-Engineering PDK Tune
Flat 6 Banks Chrono + Kit
Flat 6 Wheel Spacer Kit
OEM S/GTS Turbos
CSF Intercooler
H&R Lowering Springs
Bilstein EVO Coilovers
Exhausts from Soul, Kline, Akrapovic, iPE, Link Pipes w/ PSE
I'll have a post later today discussing it and pictures later this week. We had to wait on 2 more bolts that come today from Porsche.
Originally Posted by mattchow
I meant more along the lines that I wanted to keep my SC and add the banks gauge somewhere in the car.
Ahh, it comes with a universal mounting clamp. I'm not sure a good place to mount it without it looking sort of out of place but you could probably stick it near the a-pillar.
Originally Posted by mattchow
how much were the GTS turbos? no one has really presented options other than the pure turbo upgrades from m engineering. the m engineering do the tune for the GTS turbos?
We're working on offering a kit. I don't have finalized pricing yet but we're hoping to come in around the 991.2 upgrade kit we offer. We'll probably offer just the turbos but also working on a kit that includes turbos, all the OEM gaskets, seals, o-rings, and tuning from M-Engineering.
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
You should take the car in for a warranty claim and sell tickets.
I bet you'd probably make as much money as you would selling the mods.
We're not concerned about warranty. We've been pushing the 3.0L over 700HP for 4-5 years now without any issues. The 9A2/9A2 EVO motors are very stout and impressive. A lot of shared parts with the new Turbo motor.
I just wanted to share some updates/photos after doing a few aesthetic modifications. I thought the base 992 Carrera looked a little too soft and too upright in the front. I wanted a lower/more aggressive look and just clean up the overall color palette with the car.
I really love the look and the lower center of gravity. You feel a little more road coming through the slightly stiffer spring rate but it’s still comfortable and turn-in on the car is dramatically improved. I’m excited to get this on the track to feel the difference at the limit. It looks a lot more aggressive now, to me it feels more special. All of the lighting and OEM parts were simple to install. The side markers don’t even require any tools to swap!
Up next, we have a fun project. I purchased the car with 6K miles on it from a dealership. The previous owner had the calipers repainted in yellow. It’s a bit brighter of a yellow than Porsche uses on the PCCB calipers but unfortunately, whoever did the work…they put the Porsche logos on upside down on the driver’s side! The brakes held up well at the track with Motul RBF 600 (all else stock) but since I need to fix the caliper issue (and I like Big Brakes, I cannot lie), so we’re doing a PCCB conversion. We’ll be using the OEM PCCB calipers for the 992 (shared with the 991.2 Carrera or Turbo) and I’ll be pairing them with stainless steel brake lines from Goodridge, Ferodo DS2500 pads and Girodisc 2-Piece rotors. This will really fill out the wheels and make the car look even more aggressive. It will also enhance braking performance with a larger surface area and improved pad compound. More details, weights, impressions, and pics to follow!
I can't wait for your exhaust comparisons between Akra, Soul, and Kline for sound and performance. I have catless downpipes + PSE on my C2S but looking at akra or soul exhaust soon for an even more pronounced tone.
Last edited by reddsektor; 12-08-2022 at 06:52 PM.
I can't wait for your exhaust comparisons between Akra, Soul, and Kline for sound and performance. I have catless downpipes + PSE on my C2S but looking at akra or soul exhaust soon for an even more pronounced tone.
Hey all, this is Jon from Flat 6 Motorsports. We recently picked up a 992 Carrera that we've done and will be doing a lot of testing and development on. I thought I'd start a thread to share some updates as we have data/testing results and pictures, info and insights. We'll be testing about 15 different exhaust combinations, tuning, suspension, intercoolers, turbos, water/meth, etc. Just a quick running list of parts/solutions we'll be testing:M-Engineering ECU TuneM-Engineering PDK TuneFlat 6 Banks Chrono + KitFlat 6 Wheel Spacer KitOEM S/GTS TurbosCSF IntercoolerH&R Lowering SpringsBilstein EVO CoiloversExhausts from Soul, Kline, Akrapovic, iPE, Link Pipes w/ PSEFlat 6 LED Side MarkersFlat 6 Water/Meth Injection KitAWE FoilersOEM PCCB Calipers w/ Girodisc 2-Peice Steel Rotors (410mm/390mm)Do88 Inlets/HosesBC Forged RZ05 Wheels / Michelin Cup 2 TiresPure Turbos
12-06-2022, 01:14 PM
