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The PIWIS should have a section where you can view live data and watch the misfire counter. That would be a good place to start.
The few cars that have had this issue all flashed on their supplied "Uninstall" files and got them replaced under warranty without issue. Once the injectors were replaced the issue was no longer present.
-Charles@M
Charles, how are you able to determine that the injectors are faulty when there are no check engine lights for misfire and no issue when running on the stock tune? The stuttering only occurs at 5-6k RPMs on when on the tune.
I had the same stuttering and misfire and even CEL on my 992 C2S with the M-engineering tune. Car was perfect with stock tune, and I was told maybe spark plugs or coils or injectors were to blame and unable to handle the tune. It turns out it was none of these things. I have been running the Softronic tune in same car without issues and with very strong performance gains.
I think it may be different ways to achieve gains, the M-engineering method didn't work in my car even using 93 octane or mixing in e85, same stutter and CEL.
I had the same stuttering and misfire and even CEL on my 992 C2S with the M-engineering tune. Car was perfect with stock tune, and I was told maybe spark plugs or coils or injectors were to blame and unable to handle the tune. It turns out it was none of these things. I have been running the Softronic tune in same car without issues and with very strong performance gains.
I think it may be different ways to achieve gains, the M-engineering method didn't work in my car even using 93 octane or mixing in e85, same stutter and CEL.
I had the same stuttering and misfire and even CEL on my 992 C2S with the M-engineering tune. Car was perfect with stock tune, and I was told maybe spark plugs or coils or injectors were to blame and unable to handle the tune. It turns out it was none of these things. I have been running the Softronic tune in same car without issues and with very strong performance gains.
I think it may be different ways to achieve gains, the M-engineering method didn't work in my car even using 93 octane or mixing in e85, same stutter and CEL.
I’m curious to see if folks are having the same issue with APR tunes as well and if so, related to year of the car. Like you said, I suspect there are different ways to skin this cat.
We are always here to help after the sale! Our calibrations are very well vetted and we have tuned quite literally hundreds of these cars.
If you are having misfire issues that are unrelated to a spark issue, it is very possible that your car may have an injector issue. We've seen this on a dozen plus cars at this point. This happens every once in a while to a few cars and there is even an official TSB from Porsche for them. The piezo style injectors are known to have issues on this platform both for the Carrera and Turbo models. The symptoms are generally noted as a misfire in one or multiple cylinders. Sometimes and injector fault will be present but not every instance. The issue becomes exacerbated with more power. The fix for this is a full injector replacement and reprogramming by the dealership. In all cases I have seen Porsche has replaced them under factory warranty.
We have a big notice about this in our map notes.
In regards to colder step plugs, they are not needed. Simply gapping down the factory plugs is sufficient. The issue with the factory gapping or larger gapping is spark blowout, similar to how when you use your breath to blow out a candle. If you tighten the gap its harder to blow the plug out with more boost.
-Charles@M
Even on stage 2? I’ve heard of an instance where an engine blew on a 992, where upon inspection, they found melted electrodes. Now it can be that the timing was too aggressive or lean AFR but it could also mean incorrect heat range of spark plugs.
yes, surprised they don't recommend a colder heat range (or two) with the increased boost and cylinder pressures/temperatures associated with the increased power. I'm old school, but with this power addition (100 hp, 20% over stock or so) a step down, or possibly two is normally suggested to keep preignition/detonation at bay.
My experience is close to 20 years old now, so take that with a grain of salt. Things could be/probably are different now. But I've seen plenty of melted plug electrodes, shiny pieces of metal on plug insulators, etc. to recognize too hot a plug for the situation.
Even on stage 2? I’ve heard of an instance where an engine blew on a 992, where upon inspection, they found melted electrodes. Now it can be that the timing was too aggressive or lean AFR but it could also mean incorrect heat range of spark plugs.
You don't need colder step spark plugs on this platform. The issue lies within the spark gap and blowing out spark. This can be remedied by running a tighter gap on your plugs or by utilizing a high-energy coil pack. I want to make it very clear that M-Engineering has never had a case of a blown engine on the 992 platform and this said vehicle with melted electrodes was not an M-Engineering tuned car. I suspect that car very, very likely had an injector issue like mentioned above and as a result high temps from lack of fuel and running lean melted things. You can run Stage 4+ on these cars on factory plugs with .022" gapping and they run great without needing to go "colder".
Originally Posted by Pokey1
yes, surprised they don't recommend a colder heat range (or two) with the increased boost and cylinder pressures/temperatures associated with the increased power. I'm old school, but with this power addition (100 hp, 20% over stock or so) a step down, or possibly two is normally suggested to keep preignition/detonation at bay.
My experience is close to 20 years old now, so take that with a grain of salt. Things could be/probably are different now. But I've seen plenty of melted plug electrodes, shiny pieces of metal on plug insulators, etc. to recognize too hot a plug for the situation.
Again, nothing to do with the heat range of the plugs. They are actually really good plugs run from the factory, they just need to be gapped down to avoid "blowing out" spark. We have this same issue on the McLaren platform and recommend running a tightened gap and/or utilizing high-energy coil packs.
I had the same stuttering and misfire and even CEL on my 992 C2S with the M-engineering tune. Car was perfect with stock tune, and I was told maybe spark plugs or coils or injectors were to blame and unable to handle the tune. It turns out it was none of these things. I have been running the Softronic tune in same car without issues and with very strong performance gains.
I think it may be different ways to achieve gains, the M-engineering method didn't work in my car even using 93 octane or mixing in e85, same stutter and CEL.
Same experience for me. First I was told it was bad gas, then bad plugs, then bad injectors, all the while the car runs great on the track in stock tune. I went from 93 to 91 tunes and still same problem. I just gave up.
Same experience for me. First I was told it was bad gas, then bad plugs, then bad injectors, all the while the car runs great on the track in stock tune. I went from 93 to 91 tunes and still same problem. I just gave up.
We have been in touch via PM. It looks like for an extended amount of time there has been some email issues and you have not been getting our replies or map updates. We are in touch now and will get you sorted!
Same experience for me. First I was told it was bad gas, then bad plugs, then bad injectors, all the while the car runs great on the track in stock tune. I went from 93 to 91 tunes and still same problem. I just gave up.
Well at least you were given routes to troubleshoot but for me it was just different maps, and stutters never disappeared. Eventually I went back to stock, I'll see in a few years what I may decide to do.
I’m surprised to see so many here into the hp game. Porsche is not known for high torque/hp applications and I wonder if some of you would be happier with G80 M3/M4s. While we in Porsche land think that the manufacturer understates hp, even though none of the dyno readings back that up (20-30hp discrepancies at most), it is quite true that a 500hp rated M3 is actually pushing 575hp. Kids with piggyback tunes are doing 700 on Stage 1 and over 800 on E85. Tuned Turbo S sometimes can’t hit those numbers without bigger turbos. The 3 liter inline 6 is tailormade for going big without the need for meth, I should add.
I seriously think a tuned M3 will satisfy most of your needs without this much hassle. Keep the 992 for handling, otherwise.
Car is US-spec C2S 2021 without any mods and has a manual transmission and had 4200 miles at the time and now has 5500 miles on the odometer.
Car has had the Softronic tune for the past 6 months and > 1000 miles in both summer and winter weather using 93 octane fuel without any issues and pulls like a freight train with excellent high boost and without any stuttering or CEL that were present with the various maps sent by M-engineering.
As I said M-engineering were great to deal with during the process but please let us not simply blindly assume they are correct that the spark plugs or injectors or whatever was wrong with the car that's why it stuttered and got a CEL light when flooring it at 4-5k rpm in my case.
Case in point since removing their tune and installing the Softronic tune I have not had a single issue with a very strong performing tune. Can we please leave the arrogance at the door and admit that there are certain things that were not solved by their team despite their excellence and were by their competitor.
I’m surprised to see so many here into the hp game. Porsche is not known for high torque/hp applications and I wonder if some of you would be happier with G80 M3/M4s. While we in Porsche land think that the manufacturer understates hp, even though none of the dyno readings back that up (20-30hp discrepancies at most), it is quite true that a 500hp rated M3 is actually pushing 575hp. Kids with piggyback tunes are doing 700 on Stage 1 and over 800 on E85. Tuned Turbo S sometimes can’t hit those numbers without bigger turbos. The 3 liter inline 6 is tailormade for going big without the need for meth, I should add.
I seriously think a tuned M3 will satisfy most of your needs without this much hassle. Keep the 992 for handling, otherwise.
Mostly agree with you however I feel my 992S could use a bit of torque bump on the low end. I don't care about +100hp at 5KRPM, I'll never use this much power personally (though when I was younger I definitely would have), but in my city environment the car struggles at the low end, and these tunes generally provide a big significant improvement. I only tried M-Engineering which made the car a blast, unfortunately they couldn't figure out the occasional stutter at 800-1200 RPM so I had to uninstall the tune.
Mostly agree with you however I feel my 992S could use a bit of torque bump on the low end. I don't care about +100hp at 5KRPM, I'll never use this much power personally (though when I was younger I definitely would have), but in my city environment the car struggles at the low end, and these tunes generally provide a big significant improvement. I only tried M-Engineering which made the car a blast, unfortunately they couldn't figure out the occasional stutter at 800-1200 RPM so I had to uninstall the tune.
Bummer, does M tuner have a return / refund policy?
01-08-2024, 05:56 PM
