Buy now or hold?
06-10-2018, 07:28 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Buy now or hold?
I’ve been planning a 992 purchase for next year, and anxiously watch this forum for updates. All looks like we’re on track, but this week a couple of things happened: Trump starts talking about tariffs on German cars; Porsche drops Safire Blue from the co figurator; and my dream 991.2 (in Safire Blue) shows up at my local dealer.
Am I crazy to consider the outgoing 991.2 over the 992? I’m not in a hurry, and in fact my current lease runs out end of next year, so I’ll probably wash to lease loss into the 5-7% discount.if I buy right now. If wait, the typical price increase will happen with no discounts for a while.
Is it possible that the 992 is going to jump in price due to trade agreements or is my mind just trying to talk me into a new car?
This is is a retirement purchase for me — so I won’t be trading up in a few years. After a couple of caymans, this is the big one so I do t want to mess it up. It feels like it’s goong to be a considerable amount cheaper to buy now but again, it might just be my overactive logic cells trying to get me a new car now.
what do you think?
Am I crazy to consider the outgoing 991.2 over the 992? I’m not in a hurry, and in fact my current lease runs out end of next year, so I’ll probably wash to lease loss into the 5-7% discount.if I buy right now. If wait, the typical price increase will happen with no discounts for a while.
Is it possible that the 992 is going to jump in price due to trade agreements or is my mind just trying to talk me into a new car?
This is is a retirement purchase for me — so I won’t be trading up in a few years. After a couple of caymans, this is the big one so I do t want to mess it up. It feels like it’s goong to be a considerable amount cheaper to buy now but again, it might just be my overactive logic cells trying to get me a new car now.
what do you think?
06-10-2018, 01:08 PM
#2
I wouldn't spend one minute worrying about what the best president ever says about tariffs. Its just his superstar negotiating tactics. Let the people who actually have to deal with him worry about it.
As far as price and how much better the 992 is likely to be dollar for dollar, a little recent history might help. The last time this happened the 997 GTS had just been released. The 997 GTS was at that point the best non-GT 911 ever. Best looking. Best performance. I was paying close attention because after years of dreaming a new 911 seemed to be actually possible. In the grips of the same fear you seem to be in now. Exact same. A new 911 for me would definitely be what Seinfeld calls a dead mans car. I was actually to the point of sitting down planning ED at Barrier. Then life happened. But here's the thing. Not all that many weeks later the 991 comes out. I am looking them over side by side and frankly shocked at how much better it was. Sure it cost (if memory serves) about $7k more. Whatever. Exact amount does not matter. Because, for that extra whatever it was you got roughly TWICE that in gear you wanted that used to be optional but was now standard equipment. You can go back previous generations and see the same thing, over and over again. Price goes up, but you get so much more, its even more value than before.
Last, especially since this will be a retirement car, one of the most amazing of all the amazing Porsche accomplishments is making each successive 911 both faster AND a lot more comfortable- smoother, quieter, easier to drive.
As far as price and how much better the 992 is likely to be dollar for dollar, a little recent history might help. The last time this happened the 997 GTS had just been released. The 997 GTS was at that point the best non-GT 911 ever. Best looking. Best performance. I was paying close attention because after years of dreaming a new 911 seemed to be actually possible. In the grips of the same fear you seem to be in now. Exact same. A new 911 for me would definitely be what Seinfeld calls a dead mans car. I was actually to the point of sitting down planning ED at Barrier. Then life happened. But here's the thing. Not all that many weeks later the 991 comes out. I am looking them over side by side and frankly shocked at how much better it was. Sure it cost (if memory serves) about $7k more. Whatever. Exact amount does not matter. Because, for that extra whatever it was you got roughly TWICE that in gear you wanted that used to be optional but was now standard equipment. You can go back previous generations and see the same thing, over and over again. Price goes up, but you get so much more, its even more value than before.
Last, especially since this will be a retirement car, one of the most amazing of all the amazing Porsche accomplishments is making each successive 911 both faster AND a lot more comfortable- smoother, quieter, easier to drive.
06-10-2018, 01:26 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
I'm a 991.2 C4 owner (bought spring 2016) and I think that it's a spectacular car. That said, I would not advise buying a 991.2 now. However good it is, there's nothing unique about it ongoing. I suspect that the 992 will best the 991.2 in nearly all objective criteria with only a small jump in price.
06-10-2018, 01:59 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
I'm a 991.2 C4 owner (bought spring 2016) and I think that it's a spectacular car. That said, I would not advise buying a 991.2 now. However good it is, there's nothing unique about it ongoing. I suspect that the 992 will best the 991.2 in nearly all objective criteria with only a small jump in price.
06-10-2018, 02:00 PM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
I wouldn't spend one minute worrying about what the best president ever says about tariffs. Its just his superstar negotiating tactics. Let the people who actually have to deal with him worry about it.
As far as price and how much better the 992 is likely to be dollar for dollar, a little recent history might help. The last time this happened the 997 GTS had just been released. The 997 GTS was at that point the best non-GT 911 ever. Best looking. Best performance. I was paying close attention because after years of dreaming a new 911 seemed to be actually possible. In the grips of the same fear you seem to be in now. Exact same. A new 911 for me would definitely be what Seinfeld calls a dead mans car. I was actually to the point of sitting down planning ED at Barrier. Then life happened. But here's the thing. Not all that many weeks later the 991 comes out. I am looking them over side by side and frankly shocked at how much better it was. Sure it cost (if memory serves) about $7k more. Whatever. Exact amount does not matter. Because, for that extra whatever it was you got roughly TWICE that in gear you wanted that used to be optional but was now standard equipment. You can go back previous generations and see the same thing, over and over again. Price goes up, but you get so much more, its even more value than before.
Last, especially since this will be a retirement car, one of the most amazing of all the amazing Porsche accomplishments is making each successive 911 both faster AND a lot more comfortable- smoother, quieter, easier to drive.
As far as price and how much better the 992 is likely to be dollar for dollar, a little recent history might help. The last time this happened the 997 GTS had just been released. The 997 GTS was at that point the best non-GT 911 ever. Best looking. Best performance. I was paying close attention because after years of dreaming a new 911 seemed to be actually possible. In the grips of the same fear you seem to be in now. Exact same. A new 911 for me would definitely be what Seinfeld calls a dead mans car. I was actually to the point of sitting down planning ED at Barrier. Then life happened. But here's the thing. Not all that many weeks later the 991 comes out. I am looking them over side by side and frankly shocked at how much better it was. Sure it cost (if memory serves) about $7k more. Whatever. Exact amount does not matter. Because, for that extra whatever it was you got roughly TWICE that in gear you wanted that used to be optional but was now standard equipment. You can go back previous generations and see the same thing, over and over again. Price goes up, but you get so much more, its even more value than before.
Last, especially since this will be a retirement car, one of the most amazing of all the amazing Porsche accomplishments is making each successive 911 both faster AND a lot more comfortable- smoother, quieter, easier to drive.
06-10-2018, 02:59 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I would wait, but do expect a 7-9% price increase and most likely no real discount on the 992 for a while. Also depending on which model you are looking for it may be the end of next year, so like 18 months from now, don’t quote me on that, but don’t the S models come out first? As for changes, in power, I predict little or small change on power on the base Carrera as it has taken a lot of S sales away, I drove both and while it was noticeable, it was not all that in my opinion. If you are olay with the spy photos, then wait. I am sure it will be a great car.
06-10-2018, 04:18 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
I would wait, but do expect a 7-9% price increase and most likely no real discount on the 992 for a while. Also depending on which model you are looking for it may be the end of next year, so like 18 months from now, don’t quote me on that, but don’t the S models come out first? As for changes, in power, I predict little or small change on power on the base Carrera as it has taken a lot of S sales away, I drove both and while it was noticeable, it was not all that in my opinion. If you are olay with the spy photos, then wait. I am sure it will be a great car.
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06-10-2018, 04:29 PM
#9
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 992 from everything that I’ve heard will make the 991.2 feel a bit antiquated.
There will be changes to the engine, as well as the gearbox - be it manual or PDK.
Then there will be interior changes (think Panamera dash).
Most people will enjoy those changes, then there are the Luddites here who yearn for analog gauges and maybe even manual windows. If you fall in that group I suppose you should’ve bought a 993 when it first came out and bubble-wrapped it until now.
But seriously if you have to ask this question then the answer is a bit obvious. Wait for the 992. Because if the 991.2 that’s on the lot was a “no-brainer” purchase for you, you would’ve bought it already.
There will be changes to the engine, as well as the gearbox - be it manual or PDK.
Then there will be interior changes (think Panamera dash).
Most people will enjoy those changes, then there are the Luddites here who yearn for analog gauges and maybe even manual windows. If you fall in that group I suppose you should’ve bought a 993 when it first came out and bubble-wrapped it until now.
But seriously if you have to ask this question then the answer is a bit obvious. Wait for the 992. Because if the 991.2 that’s on the lot was a “no-brainer” purchase for you, you would’ve bought it already.
06-10-2018, 05:08 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
The 992 from everything that I’ve heard will make the 991.2 feel a bit antiquated.
There will be changes to the engine, as well as the gearbox - be it manual or PDK.
Then there will be interior changes (think Panamera dash).
Most people will enjoy those changes, then there are the Luddites here who yearn for analog gauges and maybe even manual windows. If you fall in that group I suppose you should’ve bought a 993 when it first came out and bubble-wrapped it until now.
But seriously if you have to ask this question then the answer is a bit obvious. Wait for the 992. Because if the 991.2 that’s on the lot was a “no-brainer” purchase for you, you would’ve bought it already.
There will be changes to the engine, as well as the gearbox - be it manual or PDK.
Then there will be interior changes (think Panamera dash).
Most people will enjoy those changes, then there are the Luddites here who yearn for analog gauges and maybe even manual windows. If you fall in that group I suppose you should’ve bought a 993 when it first came out and bubble-wrapped it until now.
But seriously if you have to ask this question then the answer is a bit obvious. Wait for the 992. Because if the 991.2 that’s on the lot was a “no-brainer” purchase for you, you would’ve bought it already.
Peace guys
06-10-2018, 05:51 PM
#11
I'm of the opinion that cars DONT always improve every generation. Sure the 992 will have more tech in it. Improved adaptive cruise and lane keep assist will be standard or cheaper options. The car will be bigger/roomier, maybe heavier, and more digitized. The engine noise may be reduced and it might even be more comfortable/quite. Who knows?
I've seen plenty of cars get worse over the years. The older models were more solid, looked more traditional (not polarizing), simpler design, cheaper, and drove better. They were less efficient and didn't have ipads in the console, but they were good cars. You used to be able to get a V6 in normal cars, but today all engines got downsized. You used to be able to get rear wheel drive standard on many cars, now they're all mostly FWD. Most SUVs don't even have full frames anymore. Heck they make pickup trucks out of aluminium that crumbles and punctures easy. The manual transmission is nearly dead. Electric power steering numbs the steering feel. Turbos mute engine sound. Infiniti cars are even ditching the steering rack for 'steer by wire' systems.
Fact is that its pretty clear that the 991.1 and 991.2 generation are good solid cars that aren't completely neutered in the name of efficiency. Waiting for something better is silly. What exactly do you think could be improved? Maybe the newer version will be a step back. For example, why would a 911 get better with a 8 speed transmission? It wont...it will be more efficient to pass emission laws. Who needs a 10 speed transmission in a car?
Why would a new interior be better? The platform will be shared with other VW/AUDI products. They might even cheapen the interior to keep costs down, profits up.
I've seen the panamera interior and spyshots of the 992. I'm not a fan. Looks cheaper and dumbed down to me. A real transmission shifter is changed to a shaver that looks like its from a space ship? A real instrument cluster is replaced with screens to replicate analog gauges? Real buttons are replaced with hepatic feedback touch controls? Solid door handles replaced with flimsy thingies? Doesn't look like a step forward to me...looks like a step into a future of 'cheap dispensable autonomous cars.'
People aren't buying sports cars today. They are getting SUVs and ecoboxes. Porsche has shifted focus to Mission E and variants of Macan/Cayenne because this is what people want. They'll be releasing a mini-panamera sedan. The next 911 chassis might end up being an after thought or stepping stone for their electric cars.
IMO, if you actually are willing to buy a 911, buy a 991 today. Its a reliable platform that has been around since 2012, has a nice classic look, has all the tech you need without being intrusive, well laid out simple cockpit, quality interior (with options), and all the power any sane man needs. Its really hard to improve upon something great. Things improve to a point where further improvement is better defined as 'changes.' The waiting game of 'let me see what comes next' will leave you with regrets.
I've seen plenty of cars get worse over the years. The older models were more solid, looked more traditional (not polarizing), simpler design, cheaper, and drove better. They were less efficient and didn't have ipads in the console, but they were good cars. You used to be able to get a V6 in normal cars, but today all engines got downsized. You used to be able to get rear wheel drive standard on many cars, now they're all mostly FWD. Most SUVs don't even have full frames anymore. Heck they make pickup trucks out of aluminium that crumbles and punctures easy. The manual transmission is nearly dead. Electric power steering numbs the steering feel. Turbos mute engine sound. Infiniti cars are even ditching the steering rack for 'steer by wire' systems.
Fact is that its pretty clear that the 991.1 and 991.2 generation are good solid cars that aren't completely neutered in the name of efficiency. Waiting for something better is silly. What exactly do you think could be improved? Maybe the newer version will be a step back. For example, why would a 911 get better with a 8 speed transmission? It wont...it will be more efficient to pass emission laws. Who needs a 10 speed transmission in a car?
Why would a new interior be better? The platform will be shared with other VW/AUDI products. They might even cheapen the interior to keep costs down, profits up.
I've seen the panamera interior and spyshots of the 992. I'm not a fan. Looks cheaper and dumbed down to me. A real transmission shifter is changed to a shaver that looks like its from a space ship? A real instrument cluster is replaced with screens to replicate analog gauges? Real buttons are replaced with hepatic feedback touch controls? Solid door handles replaced with flimsy thingies? Doesn't look like a step forward to me...looks like a step into a future of 'cheap dispensable autonomous cars.'
People aren't buying sports cars today. They are getting SUVs and ecoboxes. Porsche has shifted focus to Mission E and variants of Macan/Cayenne because this is what people want. They'll be releasing a mini-panamera sedan. The next 911 chassis might end up being an after thought or stepping stone for their electric cars.
IMO, if you actually are willing to buy a 911, buy a 991 today. Its a reliable platform that has been around since 2012, has a nice classic look, has all the tech you need without being intrusive, well laid out simple cockpit, quality interior (with options), and all the power any sane man needs. Its really hard to improve upon something great. Things improve to a point where further improvement is better defined as 'changes.' The waiting game of 'let me see what comes next' will leave you with regrets.
06-10-2018, 05:57 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Its an endless loop. Getting the newest and the greatest has its own pros and cons. The biggest con is that you will be getting a first year model and as good as our Porsches are, not everything coming out of Stuttgart gets a perfect 10. The IMS and fried headlights are good examples.
06-10-2018, 08:00 PM
#14
The second generation Panamera interior doesn't look cheap to me. Don't expect the 992's to look/feel cheap either.
06-10-2018, 09:02 PM
#15
Tough choice
I had the same dilemma for months, today I ended up going forward and ordering a Carrera T (991.2) with a reasonable discount (5%) and will be delivered end of September.
I understand that the car will arrive only few weeks before the announcement of the 992 but it was the most realistic choice. Waiting will require another year and I wasn’t willing to do that.
Overall I am certain the 992 will be great but I am confident the T would be as special.
I understand that the car will arrive only few weeks before the announcement of the 992 but it was the most realistic choice. Waiting will require another year and I wasn’t willing to do that.
Overall I am certain the 992 will be great but I am confident the T would be as special.