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@911FB I completely get what you are saying, we are in two places: track car, but spending that much money so might as well make it look as good as possible, money be damned.
A similarly interesting question, for someone like me who will use my 3RS exclusively on track, is: why not just buy a Cup Car? I've owned race cars.
And, what you say is true, of course: a wrap is easy. So why care about color?
For me, the answer has two parts.
I enjoy speccing cars. It's fun and creative, especially since more manufacturers began to offer personalization services for the masses. I like cars like the GT2RS auctioned recently that had a British Racing Green exterior over cognac leather w/black piping interior. The White Collection cars are fun.
Also, I care about how a car comes from the factory. I've owned some old cars, and always cared way too much about "correctness." That's a common illness; some people are bores about it, I know.
That's it. Not even going to pretend it makes sense. See you at the track!
This may sounds silly but one of the things that is holding me back of buying a dedicated track car that, as is not road legal is that since there is no gas station at the track I am a member of, you then have to haul gas cans every single time, smelling up your other car.
What started at just having some fun on a track now becomes a logistics exercise. Am I the only one thinking this way?
This may sounds silly but one of the things that is holding me back of buying a dedicated track car that, as is not road legal is that since there is no gas station at the track I am a member of, you then have to haul gas cans every single time, smelling up your other car.
What started at just having some fun on a track now becomes a logistics exercise. Am I the only one thinking this way?
Not silly. Modern factory race cars have become complex amd expensive to operate and maintain. A current gen Cup Car just requires more attention and hassle than a street car. It's the kind of car I'd prefer to have a shop manage at the track. I've raced, and I don't want to get back into that level of expense and hassle. I can always just drive my 3RS to the dealership without loading it on a trailer. I can drive it to the gas station.
Not silly. Modern factory race cars have become complex amd expensive to operate and maintain. A current gen Cup Car just requires more attention and hassle than a street car. It's the kind of car I'd prefer to have a shop manage at the track. I've raced, and I don't want to get back into that level of expense and hassle. I can always just drive my 3RS to the dealership without loading it on a trailer. I can drive it to the gas station.
the safety issue is the only reason to consider a dedicated Cup car for a DE, but that’s it. The costs are exorbitant to run one with necessary trans and motor rebuilds, not mention the constant other things which inevitably break and are stupid expensive to fix. Todays cars like the GT3 and RS are Crazy fast and fun, but more importantly are reliable and under warranty! As long as maintain it you can beat the living snot out of it for 4 years and have anything fixed that breaks. That’s insane. The only track car that is similar is GT4 Clubsport, that is best option for anyone wanting dedicated track car without insane expenses.
the safety issue is the only reason to consider a dedicated Cup car for a DE, but that’s it. The costs are exorbitant to run one with necessary trans and motor rebuilds, not mention the constant other things which inevitably break and are stupid expensive to fix. Todays cars like the GT3 and RS are Crazy fast and fun, but more importantly are reliable and under warranty! As long as maintain it you can beat the living snot out of it for 4 years and have anything fixed that breaks. That’s insane. The only track car that is similar is GT4 Clubsport, that is best option for anyone wanting dedicated track car without insane expenses.
100% agree, especially about the Clubsport.
Even the street car safety issue can be addressed to some extent by installing a bar and wearing a HANS. Sure, a full cage is better, but ....
Only 1462 ‘19 GT3RS were imported for ‘19 model year. 63% were Weissach package. This car was only made 1 year. It performs very close to 992.1 and at this point seem to be around 50% of 992.1. It would seem at this point a good car would be a safe purchase.
You haven't driven both if that is your assessment
My point was one car costs almost double in the current market and a great driver in a 991.2 could outperform a less experienced driver in a 992.1. One car was built and mean’t to spends its life on a track and the other less so. We still don’t know how many 992’s will be made overall and I would love to know how they give the next car MATERIAL improvements. Not that they can’t but without some form of electric assistance will not be easy or cheap.
My point was one car costs almost double in the current market and a great driver in a 991.2 could outperform a less experienced driver in a 992.1. One car was built and mean’t to spends its life on a track and the other less so. We still don’t know how many 992’s will be made overall and I would love to know how they give the next car MATERIAL improvements. Not that they can’t but without some form of electric assistance will not be easy or cheap.
Where do you get that from?
Has AP or Porsche ever said the 991 GT3 RS is less of a track car than the 992 GT3 RS?
Certainly not when the 991 GT3 RS was introduced when both Estre and Walliser said the 991 GT3 RS was as close to the 911 GT3 R as any car Porsche has ever made.
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Originally Posted by white6speed
My point was one car costs almost double in the current market and a great driver in a 991.2 could outperform a less experienced driver in a 992.1. One car was built and mean’t to spends its life on a track and the other less so. We still don’t know how many 992’s will be made overall and I would love to know how they give the next car MATERIAL improvements. Not that they can’t but without some form of electric assistance will not be easy or cheap.
Are you thinking that 991.2 RS costs half as much as 992.1 GT3? Market prices are about the same. And lap times are about the same.
sounds awesome - a EuroDelivery w/RS would've been a once in a life time experience - wish I could do it.
congrats.
Hi @daveo4porsche -- am following your thread, and I'm really bummed to hear about your experience. This will probably not make you feel much better, but I narrowly escaped the same fate on my Euro Delivery. Some details...
While flying across the ocean I received this email:
Good Morning,
Sorry to bother you so early, but I just received an urgent note from the factory. There is a software update required for the airbag system, which should be released on Friday afternoon. Based on this information, the factory would like to ask about the alternatives below.
- Would you be willing to wait until 2 or 3 PM to drive off after delivery. Normally, the program ends around 1:15, but they are thinking it may be possible to run the update while you are at lunch.
- If the first option is not possible, we could get you a rental from Porsche Drive. However, the only vehicle available at this time is a base 911…and I’ve already given them the talk that this is not equivalent to what you are purchasing.
What are your plans after delivery and when are you planning to drop the vehicle? I’m trying to get as much information as possible, to come up with some solutions.
Kind regards,
[Name Withheld]
Oh man! I was obviously really worried and annoyed. I was already committed -- couldn't turn the plane around! -- and by 7PM Thursday I was on the ground in Frankfurt at the McDonalds (you know the one by the car rental area of Terminal 1) talking to the staff at the Werkswagen. They didn't have much more information, and if anything were lowering my expectations that we'd get the car on Friday. They don't work the weekends, so the next window would have been Monday -- and that's when my return flight was leaving. We had carefully planned a very tight 3-day schedule of 1500kms over the weekend, so if we didn't get the car by COB Friday we were SOL.
We arrived at 7AM at the Werkswagen trying to stay optimistic:
The Werkswagen is not the normal facility for European delivery; the original location used to be adjacent to the Museum and Factory. That building was torn down and there is a major construction project to upgrade the facilities, so deliveries are now done at the Werkswagen which is where Porsche employees can purchase vehicles. If you've been a Porsche employee for 3 years you can get a 20% discount! But you can also get an allowance to lease a vehicle and you can swap that vehicle out every 6 months. VPs and above can even get GT cars! Pretty cool. The facility is quite nice and they take good care of you there, even if you're fretting over an RS with buggy airbag software.
Here's a few additional pictures of the Werkswagen:
There was a nice German family taking delivery of a Cayenne that morning too, and a couple from Miami getting a PTS Taycan.
The team on the ground were very kind and apologetic, but it was clear they had little control over what was happening behind the scenes. They dutifully set us up with a loaner car, a red 992 GT3. You can see this car in the background next to the RS. They let me start by car -- which was great! -- but then they shut off so it could be moved to the workshop next door to try to get the airbag software updated.
And so this was our replacement car for the weekend.
Probably the only time in life that a GT3 will be considered a step-down replacement car! We drove the car out of the delivery area, scampered a few kms around Stuttgart and decided to take photos in front of the Museum just in case this was our only chance to do so:
It was nice, but like you Dave the idea was to drive the RS to all the lovely destinations in and around Germany. We could do nothing but wait and hope. Resigned, we put this out of our minds, really enjoyed the factory tour, lunch, and museum. Lots of great cars and machinery!
When we returned to the Werkswagen they gave us what they said was "good news, bad news": The software was ready...but it had not been installed on any production car yet and so they were not sure it would work! Our car was the guinea pig. Lordy.
They suggested we drive around town for a bit in the loaner, but we honestly didn't feel it and decided to nervously drink coffee and pace around the Werkswagen. As I walked around the facility (filled with a really lovely selection of GT cars and other special editions) I tried to put things into perspective. I reflected on how few people in this world get to buy a Porsche, and fewer still have the means to travel to Germany to go see it. In fact, the Miami couple only showed up to see their car, not take delivery of it in Germany! My conclusion was that it was okay to feel regret at the things I wanted to do but could not. But to feel sadness or anger at the overall situation was really crazy given everything else in life. I was in Stuttgart, I had what I consider to be the world very best performance street car, and got to share the experience with one of my very best friends. To quote Sinatra, it was a very good year and I was thankful for that.
But still we waited. After a very long hour or so they called us: the update had failed several times...but at around 3:30pm they got it installed and approved! Holy ****. We were so relieved. I walked around and shook hands with all the technicians who, if I'm honest, seemed relieved that it worked and content to head home on a Friday afternoon with a happy customer. Here's us with an equally relived Porsche team finally taking the keys in the parking lot:
We grabbed the keys, shoved our luggage into the car (the one time I'll be happy there was not a roll bar in the back!) and took off down the road with smiles of relief on our faces. The very first road outside of the Werkswagen had several schoolkids walking down the street and they hollered with their fists in the air as we drove by. These really are magical cars.
I have to say that the Porsche teams in the US and Germany were very professional and tried extremely hard to make us happy during the entire process. I really appreciate that, and it's a testament to the operation that Porsche have built. My thanks go out to them.
All in all, we missed a few long-planned appointments that day in Weissach and had to replace the afternoon mountain road route with a blast down the A8 to Tegernsee, but the rest of the trip was salvaged and we had a wonderful time. But my takeaway is that no matter how much you plan these things, you're never really in control of what happens. Dave, I'm really sorry that things didn't work out for you. It nearly did for us too. I just look forward to the days ahead where we get to enjoy our lovely cars and make new memories every day and every km along the way. Hope your car arrives soon. Mine will be splitting its time between Seattle and Palo Alto so perhaps we'll see each other on the road early next year.
(One of the few times I didn't cut the kerb at Wippermann...not gonna wipe out the ol' girl on her first lap!)
Hi @daveo4porsche -- am following your thread, and I'm really bummed to hear about your experience. This will probably not make you feel much better, but I narrowly escaped the same fate on my Euro Delivery. Some details...
While flying across the ocean I received this email:
Oh man! I was obviously really worried and annoyed. I was already committed -- couldn't turn the plane around! -- and by 7PM Thursday I was on the ground in Frankfurt at the McDonalds (you know the one by the car rental area of Terminal 1) talking to the staff at the Werkswagen. They didn't have much more information, and if anything were lowering my expectations that we'd get the car on Friday. They don't work the weekends, so the next window would have been Monday -- and that's when my return flight was leaving. We had carefully planned a very tight 3-day schedule of 1500kms over the weekend, so if we didn't get the car by COB Friday we were SOL.
We arrived at 7AM at the Werkswagen trying to stay optimistic:
The Werkswagen is not the normal facility for European delivery; the original location used to be adjacent to the Museum and Factory. That building was torn down and there is a major construction project to upgrade the facilities, so deliveries are now done at the Werkswagen which is where Porsche employees can purchase vehicles. If you've been a Porsche employee for 3 years you can get a 20% discount! But you can also get an allowance to lease a vehicle and you can swap that vehicle out every 6 months. VPs and above can even get GT cars! Pretty cool. The facility is quite nice and they take good care of you there, even if you're fretting over an RS with buggy airbag software.
Here's a few additional pictures of the Werkswagen:
There was a nice German family taking delivery of a Cayenne that morning too, and a couple from Miami getting a PTS Taycan.
The team on the ground were very kind and apologetic, but it was clear they had little control over what was happening behind the scenes. They dutifully set us up with a loaner car, a red 992 GT3. You can see this car in the background next to the RS. They let me start by car -- which was great! -- but then they shut off so it could be moved to the workshop next door to try to get the airbag software updated.
And so this was our replacement car for the weekend.
Probably the only time in life that a GT3 will be considered a step-down replacement car! We drove the car out of the delivery area, scampered a few kms around Stuttgart and decided to take photos in front of the Museum just in case this was our only chance to do so:
It was nice, but like you Dave the idea was to drive the RS to all the lovely destinations in and around Germany. We could do nothing but wait and hope. Resigned, we put this out of our minds, really enjoyed the factory tour, lunch, and museum. Lots of great cars and machinery!
When we returned to the Werkswagen they gave us what they said was "good news, bad news": The software was ready...but it had not been installed on any production car yet and so they were not sure it would work! Our car was the guinea pig. Lordy.
They suggested we drive around town for a bit in the loaner, but we honestly didn't feel it and decided to nervously drink coffee and pace around the Werkswagen. As I walked around the facility (filled with a really lovely selection of GT cars and other special editions) I tried to put things into perspective. I reflected on how few people in this world get to buy a Porsche, and fewer still have the means to travel to Germany to go see it. In fact, the Miami couple only showed up to see their car, not take delivery of it in Germany! My conclusion was that it was okay to feel regret at the things I wanted to do but could not. But to feel sadness or anger at the overall situation was really crazy given everything else in life. I was in Stuttgart, I had what I consider to be the world very best performance street car, and got to share the experience with one of my very best friends. To quote Sinatra, it was a very good year and I was thankful for that.
But still we waited. After a very long hour or so they called us: the update had failed several times...but at around 3:30pm they got it installed and approved! Holy ****. We were so relieved. I walked around and shook hands with all the technicians who, if I'm honest, seemed relieved that it worked and content to head home on a Friday afternoon with a happy customer. Here's us with an equally relived Porsche team finally taking the keys in the parking lot:
We grabbed the keys, shoved our luggage into the car (the one time I'll be happy there was not a roll bar in the back!) and took off down the road with smiles of relief on our faces. The very first road outside of the Werkswagen had several schoolkids walking down the street and they hollered with their fists in the air as we drove by. These really are magical cars.
I have to say that the Porsche teams in the US and Germany were very professional and tried extremely hard to make us happy during the entire process. I really appreciate that, and it's a testament to the operation that Porsche have built. My thanks go out to them.
All in all, we missed a few long-planned appointments that day in Weissach and had to replace the afternoon mountain road route with a blast down the A8 to Tegernsee, but the rest of the trip was salvaged and we had a wonderful time. But my takeaway is that no matter how much you plan these things, you're never really in control of what happens. Dave, I'm really sorry that things didn't work out for you. It nearly did for us too. I just look forward to the days ahead where we get to enjoy our lovely cars and make new memories every day and every km along the way. Hope your car arrives soon. Mine will be splitting its time between Seattle and Palo Alto so perhaps we'll see each other on the road early next year.
(One of the few times I didn't cut the kerb at Wippermann...not gonna wipe out the ol' girl on her first lap!)
Regards,
-hyp
what an amazing story - so glad it worked out for you!!! thank you soooooo much for sharing - my car is on a boat heading to the canal right now - I hope to get it before XMAS. I'd love an update as to your delivery!
This may sounds silly but one of the things that is holding me back of buying a dedicated track car that, as is not road legal is that since there is no gas station at the track I am a member of, you then have to haul gas cans every single time, smelling up your other car.
What started at just having some fun on a track now becomes a logistics exercise. Am I the only one thinking this way?
Not sure I would use race cars if not using a race team, too much prep and stuff to do on track for my likening. We have both Cup cars and RS’s. Some days I also like the easy way, show up adjust tire pressure and do some laps, RS’s are great for that. If doing more serious driving it is always the race cars. Seen too many bad smashes, ambulances and hit too many walls in the past when doing more serious racing to have appetite for 9.9/10 track driving in a road car.
11-10-2023 | 10:20 AM
I was obviously really worried and annoyed. I was already committed -- couldn't turn the plane around! -- and by 7PM Thursday I was on the ground in Frankfurt at the McDonalds (you know the one by the car rental area of Terminal 1) talking to the staff at the Werkswagen. They didn't have much more information, and if anything were lowering my expectations that we'd get the car on Friday. They don't work the weekends, so the next window would have been Monday -- and that's when my return flight was leaving. We had carefully planned a very tight 3-day schedule of 1500kms over the weekend, so if we didn't get the car by COB Friday we were SOL.
