Originally Posted by subshooter

Vmax is determined by only two things at a given gear and that is drag (including rolling resistance) and HP. That's it. When the forward force due to the engine is equal to the drag force, the two forces are in equilibrium and the vehicle acceleration is zero. That's Vmax.

But that is not what I am talking about at all. Regardless of where the engine is in the power band, there is going to be more torque and HP at that particular RPM point and every rpm point when the ambient temperature decreases. It's not just at Vmax. The car will accelerate faster out of a turn and into the straights when ambient temperature is lowered (on a NA engine). Of course, I am over simplifying it but I needed to do that for illustrative purposes to estimate the time savings by doing the run at a 15 degree F ambient temp less than the 922 GT3. Of course the HP and torque curves are not going to be exactly 1.22% higher at every rpm point but it will absolutely be higher at every point. And when I say the car will be faster at every rpm point, it is a miniscule amount....but it is there and it adds up over ~7 min.

In fact, it adds up to about 5 secs. It's a gross estimate with a lot of assumptions but likely very close.

Alternatively, another way to look at it is that if the 992 GT3 run was done at the same ambient temperature as the GT3RS, it would be about 5 secs faster.

Originally Posted by GrantG

Originally Posted by MaxLTV

"It could also be the key to the RS offering greater compliance and approachability on the road than a regular GT3 – not something you’d expect from a car that’s so overtly focussed on track performance."

Compliance as in suspension compliance or do they mean something else? Sounds too good to be true.

Originally Posted by Manifold

I know plenty of drivers at DEs who get close enough to the limits of their cars for it to make sense for them to have those cars.

Originally Posted by boyko23

Do you know what BTG is? Lol

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

That's my point. The guy who buys it is the only one who gets to make that determination. Maybe Porsche should only let people who demonstrate sub-X Lap Times on Y Track purchase the car, eh? That'd be the real VIP Program. Can't buy the car unless you're actually fast and you can prove it by qualifying at a Porsche Experience Center.

Originally Posted by GrantG

I think that’s what they mean. You can dial the dampers back to minimum for both compression and rebound, but the springs are still 50% stiffer than GT3. Not sure how that would feel (aside from underdamped). Tire sidewalls are a bit taller - maybe that helps too.

Originally Posted by Manifold

I like that idea. I’d be willing to fly out to do an eval drive, if that enabled me to get whatever car I want (without ADM).

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

No you still gotta pay ADM. And it's actually even higher now because Porsche VIP tax.

Originally Posted by Manifold

Have never paid ADM, never will. Would rather donate the extra money to charity than give it to a dealer who has done nothing to earn it. The price on these cars is already high enough, Porsche and the dealers make plenty of money at MSRP.

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Nope, you're a VIP and you can obviously afford it if you're buying a car like this. Please have a heart, think of the starving car salesmen out there who need to buy new watch winders for their Tourbillons.

Originally Posted by Manifold

Buying this RS for road use makes no sense. Too stiff, aero doesn't work at sane speeds, lacks torque until revs are really high, no frunk, etc. If someone really wants a Porsche GT car for the road, GT3 seems like a much better choice, but a GTS is probably even better. Porsche keeps saying they designed this car for the track, but some people aren't listening.

Originally Posted by Aorta

I know folks are going nuts over this thing...I’ll pour some cold water on it. It won’t make a difference to the ‘cult’ though.

1. Looks are subjective but it’s not winning prettiest car in the world award...like the Senna. Yes I’ve seen it in person at Quail.

2. Cup 2R are hero lap tires. Any serious driver knows this. Worth nearly 2s a lap over Trofeo’s or Regular Cup2’s and the R spec falls off VERY quickly. Truly a hero lap tire...so don’t expect those lap times in your weekend HPDE events. Pure marketing bs with the CUP 2R’s and a super expensive tire. Serious racers know what I’m taking about.

3. At $275k it’s a very cool car...with $150-$200k ADM it’s a joke. I’d take a 765 over it in a heart beat for an extra $50k.

4. 50% stiffer suspension than a GT3...probably rides like a dually F350 truck around town.

5. As is the case with all GT3 cars...zero torque down low...anything under 5k is useless...making it a terrible street car. $400k buys you a pretty badass track car...with truck and trailer...

6. So it begs the question...what is the point of this car? It’s much harsher than a McLaren LT car...but not as quick as a race car. I’ve been in a Senna...harsh...harsh harsh...I’d rather have a 765LT with luggage space and comfort mode suspension. The GT3 has all the drama and noise of a Senna, but no tq down low, slower, not limited production and will get spanked by a Senna on track...granted the price is much different. As ‘road going track cars’ get more focused I don’t see the point in them. Just buy a track car. A 720 or even a 765 is much more livable day to day and will still lay a lap down. They aren’t actual race cars. Let’s stop pretending they are. Give me a 911R or Speedster and a Cup car. Or maybe just a 765LTS.

Flame suit on, LOL.

Originally Posted by AllAboutThatP

I have a 765LTS and it’s an amazing car. I actually agree with a lot of what you said. If I can get one at MSRP though, I’ll still be buying one. If ADM’s are $100k+ I’ll pass.

Originally Posted by ipse dixit

Even without price parity, I would take the 765LT over the GT3RS.

Yeah, the 9K NA redline is epic, but using that as the only metric for picking the Porsche over the Mclaren would be like choosing one of two different single malts based solely on the age of the scotch.

Originally Posted by MaxLTV

You almost lost me at torque down low. Why would anyone concerned with spirited driving care about torque down low in this car? Just downshift or let pdk do it for you! In the first gear, it'll spin wheels anyway and in any other gear, you do not need to be down low in revs ever unless you are doing it wrong. The rest of the points are valid if maybe exaggerated. Cup Rs are dumb for track days (ego ticklers), but others set benchmarks on Cup Rs too, so it's comparable for benchmarking. ADM - not everyone has to pay it, but I agree it's not worth it with $100K+ ADM.

I compared 765LT to 991.2 RS back to back, and LT was noticeably more tiring to drive - suspension about the same or maybe slightly better in LT, but everything else was not - NVH (and not the good kind), ergonomics etc. And guess what - no torque when you want it. That did it for me - on road you push throttle to powerslide a left turn (private road) from a low-speed cruise, and by the time there is any torque, the corner is gone. And the gearbox is noticeably slower, which contributed to less spur-of-the-moment mini-hooliganship, which is important to me. I expect 992 RS even widen the gap. Still an absolute masterpiece but I felt that on the street I did not have time to wait for the torque to arrive. Money no object, I still picked 991.2 RS. I may get an LT once they hybridize it (and make sure AC works - both of my friend's 765LTs lost ACs this summer).

Originally Posted by BrntRubber

Ever since I got my first Mclaren early this year (675LTS) I have been a fanboy of McLaren. That being said, the reliability and durability of a Porsche GT product is incomparable. This is from my experience and what many others have advised me of.

How many of you guys with track time in a 765 had issues with the car? The RS will take a pounding, drive home and do it again, year after year.

To my eyes the 765 is pure sex appeal, especially in spider version. The 992 2rs will be priced less than 765 and will almost certainly destroy it in all performsnce metrics. The 3RS isn't at the same price point and yet punches much above its weight in 9k redline glory.

Originally Posted by GrantG

Maybe with a tailwind, Kévin Estre, and if one of the other of the 3 OEM tires is faster

But to get below 6:44, they actually need to lose ~6 seconds…

If 6:43 is really the goal, that would explain why we haven’t seen a press release yet. May require waiting for Spring, unless they get perfect weather and an open track very soon.