evilfij

With all the hoopla about paint to sample (PTS) especially on the 991 GT3, GT3RS board, I thought I would start a thread on leather to sample (LTS). There is a fair bit of information on RL, but it is scattered and very few people order LTS. Based on my WAG I would say there is one LTS for every 10 PTS.

I hope to channel Z356 Eduardo a bit here, but my only goal is to put what (little) I know from the various threads on RL and my own research in one place.

To start: what is leather to sample?

Leather to Sample is a $5600 option (for a base or S, less on a turbo which comes with full leather) available occasionally (including now) on 991 (and 718 and other Porsches) which allows the customer to choose his own leather either "to sample" e.g. you provide a sample for Porsche to match or from a pre-existing list. It does not seem to become available on the GT cars. At least I have not seen one on RL. You can do CXX orders and get whatever you want but the price is very high ($8800 for just the LWB seats, $30k all in to change the alcantara to leather on a GT car). The LTS order window seems to coincide with the PTS window in my limited experience. Like PTS, LTS extends the time it takes to build your Porsche, even more if you do a true to sample color.

Attached is a picture from the 2D mobile configurator (the 3D configurator shows a dark green color which gives the same effect and shows additional leather options available with LTS).

So what you get is a bunch of leather that is a color Porsche does not currently offer along with some standard black trim all for $1800 more than the standard full leather package. Not too exciting to me.

But wait, while the intention of LTS may have been to offer different colors, there are some additional ways to go about it and it now comes with some additional benefits -- in particular deviating carpet and deviating stitching are included in the price. The deviated stitching is a new development confirmed by some Rennlisters and told to me as well.

What sold me was that the quality of leather you can chose is potentially better than the standard Porsche leather. For example, you can get "Ascot Brown" which was used on the Carrera GT as one cayman owner did and got the exact same leather as in a Carrera GT, texture and all.

What was particularly interesting to me was that you could get natural leather in colors other than expresso ($5370 option) and expresso/cognac ($5800 option).

The most recent LTS list posted on RL

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...l#post12203979

lists six leathers available in natural leather. Some are familiar: Carrera Red (which was formerly available on certain porsches), cognac (the current lighter tone offering in expresso cognac natural leather), dunkelgrau or dark grey (a Carrera GT interior color), Natural Brown (which was formerly available on certain porsches), Zeder or Cedar (which was a Panamera interior option paired with cognac) and the one I was after Schwarz natur or natural black.

What is natural leather?

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...ml#post9721156

Z356 did a good job of explaining, but basically it is dyed all the way through rather than just surface dyed and it retains the natural texture of the leather. It smells really nice and tends to wear better and longer than standard automotive leather. Anyone who has seen an old vehicle with leather that has been maintained knows what I am talking about or just find an expresso natural leather car and take a look.

[EDIT 7/13/17: forum user drcollie has provided in post #41 this very helpful thread on a furniture forum regarding the various types of leather available.

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...-FORUM-lt-READ

Based on my own (little) informed examination (which, in turn, is based on my own experiences with high end leather furniture of various vintages and car leather interiors made from approximately 1950-present) of the porsche vehicles I have seen with natural leather, Porsche natural leather is semi-analine. I am hoping to get a loose sample to play with.

On a related note, Porsche offers "club leather" as an option on the panamera. "Club leather is a deluxe, new milled nappa grade of leather. Its distressed look with natural patina and high-quality feel makes an especially luxurious impression." You may be able to request this club leather under LTS as "Cohiba Brown" one of the two club leather options on the Panamera, along with Truffle Brown, is listed on the LTS sheet. If you are interested, be sure to ask exclusive as to whether it is the club leather from the panamera. Club leather may be available in other colors on a true "to sample" LTS order as a supplier will typically have many color options in the same type/grade of leather.]

Up next: what you get, what you can get, and what you can't get with LTS

evilfij

As you can see from the picture above, not everything comes in the leather color of your choice. If you want, you can get more things in the LTS color leather, the 3D configurator does a good job of showing you what you can get for additional money in options. With LTS clicked as an option, click on the image for the additional leather option you are interested in and toggle the check mark on and off.

You can get:
Interior Leather
Extended Interior Package, Dashboard Trim in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CZW
$1,770
Extended Interior Package, Door Panel in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CXM
$690
Extended Interior Package, Rear in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CXN
$1,560
Porsche Crest on Headrests Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
XSC
$290
Climate Control Panel in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CHK
$870
Air Vents in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CTK
$1,720
Storage Compartment Lid with Porsche Crest Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
XPT
$340
Fuse Box Covers in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CUJ
$390
Deviated Floor Mats with Leather Edging Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CFX
$650
Belt Outlet Trim in Leather Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CTH
$560
Rear Center Tunnel in Leather with Decorative Stitching Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
XHS
$1,200

There are some variations available. For example, you can get just the air vent slats, and not the full air vents saving over $500 and you can get the model logo rather than the crest on the center arm rest. All in you can add over $10,000 in additional leather. And Porsche probably expects you to do so if you are doing a color that does not work well with black. The biggest impacts are the most expensive. The extended dashboard trim and the air vents (not just slats) in leather. Those two together get almost (speaker grills are still black) everything on top in the LTS leather -- but combined they will cost $3490.

evilfij

What you can't (or probably can't) get in LTS:

Sport seat plus seat backs in leather (no way as confirmed by exclusive to me).

Deviated leather on the seat centers.

Steering column in leather (this one I am not so sure about as it may be available with LTS -- I need to check as user mopgcw got it on his cayman picture attached here).

Interior trim package in leather (the dash, door panel, and center console pieces normally in silver) -- no way as confirmed by exclusive to me.

Sun visors in leather.

Door sills in leather (again maybe possible with LTS maybe not see pic attached).

I asked if I could get some of these parts in the standard black leather (namely the interior trim and sport seat plus backs) and the answer was an unequivocal no.

*[EDIT disclaimer: you may be able to do some or all in CXX which is very spendy and, as I had already stated I was doing natural leather, some may be available if you choose a non-natural leather.]

evilfij

What else comes with LTS?

The very helpful thread by mopgwc sheds some light one what else you may get. For example, he got a key pouch in leather and he got the fancy floor mats. Will you get the same things? I don't know.

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...ts-cayman.html

His order sheet is here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...-cayman-s.html

As you can see, he was able to order a bunch of things which you can no longer order now (at least in the configurator) in LTS including the door sills and the steering column. But that was in the pre-free deviated stitching LTS era and he optioned a ton of deviated stitching on his cayman.

The order sheet does not include the floor mats or the key pouch, but he got them. [EDIT: seems they do not come with LTS and mopgwc got lucky -- he should given how much exclusive kit he added to his car!]

evilfij

A few open questions:

Question 1: What will my gear shift look like? The configurator shows a leather wrapped **** different than the standard ****. Is that the $1040 option? [EDIT: answered in post #24, you get a normal gearshift **** silver and black smooth leather and black smooth leather boot unless you spec option CTX].

Customization Package, Gear Lever Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
CTX
$1,040

It says in the info section for that option:

Covered in Smooth-Finish Leather in Deviated Interior Color
- Gear Lever
Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur

And the **** in the configurator picture in post #1 is all black leather with no silver [EDIT: the 2D mobile configurator has been updated see post #24], but the LTS interior is not. So maybe. It also goes along with the cayman pictured above and it's option list and **** (although not deviated color, but deviated stitching).

Question 2: is everything shown in the configurator Natural Leather or is it smooth leather or painted/dyed plastic to match your LTS choice?

I don't know! I do know I was told the center armrest I should order in the embossed leather to get it in the to sample material (which seemed odd to me and maybe not right or I am remembering wrong) so I think everything mint [my guess] green in the picture in post #1 (or the darker green on the 3D configurator and in post #24) is the LTS leather you order. Ok by me if true! [EDIT: answer TBD based on Keadog's build -- his sketch shows the center console cover as the LTS leather see post #15]

Question 3: what is the deal with the free deviated stitching? Where is it and where is it not?

I don't know! I also don't care as I am getting my deviated stitching in not so deviated black.

Question 4: what about deviated carpet? Where does that go and what does it look like?

I don't know! I also don't care as my carpet will be not so deviated black.

Finally, I know of at least one RL member who has an LTS 991 on the boat now and very much look forward to seeing pictures when it arrives!

evilfij

Link to my order thread for future reference:

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9976...nfiguator.html

BTW I asked for the sketch and was told it does not exist and to just look at the configurator. Anyone order LTS and actually get a sketch?

Keadog

My car in LTS natural black is in Davisville as of yesterday. I was told nothing about floor mats or key pouch (and didn't order either), so I'll be shocked if the car arrives with either/both.
I did receive a sketch (after asking). It went to the dealer (email only), not me, and the GM forwarded me a copy. I don't have it handy, but it's very basic and a little hard to read. If you search posts by Suzy991 (who hasn't posted in a long while AFAIK), she posted the exact (or very similar) sketch in one of her posts. It's a line drawing that shows which different pieces/parts are leather. At least that's all I received. I'm also not clear which of my options won't be natural leather (if any) and I was charged for deviated stitching on the steering column casing plus one other leather option I can't think of off the top of my head. I opted not to cover the seat backs on the 18s, so that never came up. The rest of the stitching was free (GT Silver). I'm remote from my desktop where I have this info stored.
Good idea for a thread for those interested...

mrneddles

My contribution after having done my Exclusive consult (PTS and LTS build) last week:

-I was strongly advised to do the extended dash board trim in leather. It will be left half black plastic and half leather if you do not. Also it gives you several areas of extra deviated stitching around the vents which will look nice looking at the car from the outside.

-I currently have the fancy floor mats and painted key fob, but those may be jettisoned before I lock an order in favor of other options if my budget gets tight.

-They have tons of leather samples to choose from. Although I had 1.5 hours to do my consult, I could have spent all day playing with the leather choices (and PTS color frogs).

-My consultant didn't make a big deal about the leather wrapped steering column. Seems that when you do the LTS option, there is a lot of black already in the interior, especially if you order black for your deviated carpets. But that picture above really does show off how a leather wrapped steering column makes the look custom.

-LTS adds significant delay to your build, I think she said 45 days at least.

-There is no pure white stitching, you have to go cream, chalk or rhodium.

-Carpet to sample is possible but ungodly expensive, consultant ballparked 30K (basically Porsche has to buy an entire bolt of carpet, of which a small portion will be used to line the interior).

evio

I do not know if I am the one you are referring to but I am picking up my targa in ascot leather with green silver stitching on July 25 in Atlanta. It was a long wait but I hope way worth it. GT silver exterior 4s targa. I will post pictures soon and let you know about the Atlanta experience.

evio

GT silver stitching not green. Typo

Jay-S

Thanks for putting this thread together, I know it's a tremendous amount of work/effort but it will be incredibly helpful for folks like me who are considering it for their next build.

evilfij

Thank you all for the input and feedback.

evio, I was actually referring to Keadog getting his car this month, but it is good to know there is another LTS car coming this month and in Ascot Brown. Between your car (in a color leather) and Keadog's car (in natural black) we should have up to the minute perspectives on LTS and what it comes with and does not shortly.

Keadog, is this the thread with the sketch from Suzy991 you are referring to?

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7740...explained.html

It is not for leather to sample specifically, but seems to apply to LTS as well as full leather.

Also, good to know you can get the steering column in LTS, but have to pay for deviated stitiching on it (and one other part to be determined).

Dennis C

I've never owned a 911 with the LTS option, but I've owned two 911s with natural leather. The first was a 996 with Natural Brown Leather, the second is my current 991 with two-tone Espresso/Cognac Natural Leather. I had a 997 with standard, full leather in between the two.

I really like the natural leather option; it's a looks, feels, and smells better than standard leather. I highly recommend it.

evilfij

If anyone is willing to share their options list and pictures (once you get your car) I would be very grateful and I believe it would help this quite a bit.

One note regarding expresso natural leather or expresso/cognac natural leather. Those options give you more in leather than LTS and you get matching (or deviating if you ask I think) carpet. In addition, more of the trim matches than with LTS. For example, you get an expresso steering wheel which you can't get with LTS. Of course, the downside is you have to like those two choices

Keadog

Yes, that's the thread. I don't know what happened to her, but she was very well informed and could really photoshop PTS colors on 3D renderings.
I'm still a little confused as to what all will be natural black leather. I was told the steering wheel is plain leather as well as the shift boot (and, when I look, it says that in the sketch wording).
Here's some screens shots of my "sketch" - the dealer didn't get this until he requested it. Maybe it's primarily for internal use; I'm not sure. But, this is what he sent me. The bottom is my build sheet with "Steering Column Casing (and instrument surround) in LTS" noted.
There is no mention of a leather key pouch or custom floor mats, so I will be very surprised if I get them. I didn't think to ask what else may come with LTS...