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Project "Baby 911R"

Old 02-05-2017, 04:13 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
An experiment in putting just about the best performing transmission ever put in a road car, that critics and owners alike raved about, and which is still likely to be selected overwhelmingly by buyers of the .2 GT3 - that failed attempt? Please, spare us the MT nonsense in this thread.
We're talking about what makes the R great here. Not the next step in virtual technology that removes the driver. There are drivers cars and then automated vacuum cleaners like the Robo. Porsche is treading on thin water with the true driver. Even the R which us suppose to be a drivers car is full of useless torque vectoring and rear wheel steering. This alone is a joke for the true enthusiasts. Some a$$ in engineering decide to keep this worthless junk. someone should fire that no good... where's Trump..
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Old 02-05-2017, 05:41 PM
  #47  
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These threads are a little hard for me to understand... I just couldn't imagine a better experience than my C2S 991.1 Cab. the suspension is a great mix of cruising and canyon carving and the engine has the perfect crescendo and power for me. The high power does get old and the 0-60 times are fun for awhile but although I always drooled over certain "perfect" looking celebrities.... my wife is beautiful in a certain way and has the personality that is the perfect mix for me. A GT3 or better is fun for <5% of the time and most will never use the power of a 991.1 base anyway.
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Old 02-05-2017, 05:51 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by jimbo1111 View Post
We're talking about what makes the R great here. Not the next step in virtual technology that removes the driver. There are drivers cars and then automated vacuum cleaners like the Robo. Porsche is treading on thin water with the true driver. Even the R which us suppose to be a drivers car is full of useless torque vectoring and rear wheel steering. This alone is a joke for the true enthusiasts. Some a$$ in engineering decide to keep this worthless junk. someone should fire that no good... where's Trump..
Oh god, what a bunch of nonsense. Do you ever read what you type before you hit Submit Reply?
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:02 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by NeoGeo07 View Post
To OP: I like your plan...until I saw the "rear seat delete." Then you mind as well get a GT3.

I'm in a similar situation with a '14 911 50th (basically a GTS with different paint). Actually put my name down for a 991.2 GT3 but now I'm leaning to keep the 50th. I want the back seats for my kids to ride along, and I want the manual. Not looking for an all-out track day car. Any 991 is more than enough car for the street.

I would recommend DSC, better tires, elephant racing ball joints, and TPC sway bars. Also coilover conversion, but that would push the car more track than street. This would bring you pretty close to GT3, minus the engine, of course
I love how you liked all the expensive mods but dissed the free mod that's completely reversible. 50th is a great car, somewhat collector, good for everyday.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jimbo1111 View Post
If I were you, I would concentrate on gearing. You can easily pick up a half a second in the quarter mile and make the trip there much more engaging.
Now this is an interesting idea. Who will do this? Guards Transmission? Sharkwerks?

Originally Posted by k997 View Post
I agree with others here ... don't waste your time/money on mods, just get the GT3. I think once you drive one, you'll be pleasantly surprised and perhaps swayed away from this project.
Appreciate this perspective greatly.

Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
IMO, modding older Porsches can make lots of sense; big mods to nearly-current-gen cars is a romantic pasttime best entered into with eyes wide open -- which it sounds like our friend Titleistadict is doing. Hey, if it keeps him off the golf course it can't be a bad idea.
Definitely eyes wide open here which is why I posted this when I did BEFORE I embarked on this journey.

Originally Posted by 77tony View Post
Now this is cool! Wonder if the rear spoiler raises? Looks like a standard Carrera grille as well though I'd wonder about enough air flow.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:22 PM
  #51  
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Default Mods Revised

Thanks to everyone for your comments either for or against this project. I value everyone's opinion and certainly don't want to be $30k into something before realizing it's not going to be ultimate what I was going after. Just to be clear my rationale for this project is as follows:

I noticed a small but significant difference in driving dynamic with my car as is with a full tank of gas and a nearly empty tank. Empty, it feels livelier, with improved handling up front and more dynamic and playful. But it just gets into this territory and I'd like it to be even a little more in this area. 1 gallon of gas weight 6.1 lbs so 12 gallons difference is about 72 lbs. My theory is that if I can eliminate 72 lbs or thereabouts from the car as well as add a little power then the car should be about where I think it would be a perfect compromise for a daily driver. So here's my new revised mod list as it stands with some approximate numbers associated with it.

Phase 1: Weight reduction
DSC Sport v2 controller (done)
GT4 short shifter (done)
Akrapovic Ti exhaust (-19 lbs sprung weight, 18 hp/25 lb/ft)
Forgeline GA1R open lug wheel, 20x8.5, 20x11 (-20 lbs unsprung weight)
Michelin Cup 2 tires in stock sizing all around (improved handling)
Voltphreaks VP-750 Li-On battery (-39 lbs sprung weight)
Rear seat delete (-20 lbs sprung weight)
Street/race alignment with increased negative camber up front and toe adjustments front/rear (improved handling)
KW HAS (improved weight balance)

Total weight savings: 98 lbs. +18 hp, +25 lb/ft
Total cost: Hard to say since some is new, some will hopefully be used but let's say $16-18k depending.

Phase 2: Power mods
Cobb Accessport with Pro-tune (+19 hp, +16 lb/ft)
IPD Plenum (plan to skip)
BMC Air filters (+/-)
Fabspeed sport headers (plan to skip)
PCCB (plan to skip)
Lightweight flywheel and clutch (possibly when it comes time to replace clutch)
Re-gearing transmission (no idea what this takes, will need to do more research)

Total cost here about $1500 for the Cobb and Filters

So I should be at $18k if I'm lucky with the above, easily reversible and modest mods. Next post, I'll put up my thoughts re: GT3.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:23 PM
  #52  
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Default GT3 vs. C2S

Here are my thoughts re: the GT3

GT3 Pros:
Factory car, built and ready to go performance
Engine
Suspension
LWBS
Looks awesome (except wing)

GT3 Cons:
PDK-S only
Large rear wing (would require mod) - ?? $$
No rear seat (would require seat retrofit) - ?? $$
Cost ($140k for a '15 or '16 in prime condition)

To each their own. For me, the cost of the mods + car above will be approximately $110k all in with tax. For the GT3, hard to say exactly but let's say I get a $140k car + tax/reg + $3k for rear wing delete and rear seat addition = $157k. For the difference of $47k I'd easily choose to keep my C2S and consider adding a little more for say a 993 or 964 C2. Different choices for different people, but I'd be super happy with that combo vs. having 1 GT3. Now as prices of the .1 GT3 start to come down a little, perhaps it sways the proportion. And not to further confuse things but no one has mentioned a 997.2 GT3 which does come in Manual and is more in the $110-120k range.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:58 PM
  #53  
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It's been quite a while since I've posted, but your thread has my interest.

I too have a car that I find quite engaging, a 2016 C4S 3.8. I was the first to test drive the 991.2 cars at my dealer last February, but opted for the 3.8. Unfortunately, I really wanted a GTS but decided way late and to pull the trigger, and couldn't find one in the color/scheme I wanted.

That being said, I've felt that there were a few things I wanted to do to sharpen my car up a bit.

Where you and I differ, is that I recognize that my car will never by a R/GT3, but I feel like I can get a lot of the feel, with some individuality while I'm at it. So I figure keeping the back seat is a great idea. As for criticisms of modding cars, this will be probably the dozenth car I've modded, and in my experience, resale depends on the buyer, but keeping mods reversible is always a good idea.

That said, my personal list included some of yours:

How do you like the DSC Sport V2 controller?

The Cobb Tune has been very interesting to me but I worry about warranty issues. I know many mods can void warranty, but tunes are particularly worrying to me. Does it take into account other mods? What happens if you run too lean? Speaking of which...

IPD Plenum: I don't have the power kit, and so I've thought seriously about this one. Why did you remove it from your list? I thought replacing a plastic piece with an aluminum piece would be beneficial, even if gains are modest. I bet it's a satisfying mod, but I wonder about this plus cobb and running lean. I wonder if cobb adjusts the A/F ratio for mods like this.

Something on my list, that I didn't see on yours is a 3rd radiator. I suggest it. I've had a few high performance cars, and even on the street added cooling capabilities is welcomed.

Other bits and pieces I think about: I only have PASM. I would like to get the techart springs. I'd like to replace factory 5mm spacers with 7/15. I debate on adding a front lip spoiler but I kind of like what tech art has, but I want to keep the retractable wing. May just add the spasm lip.

I really like your ideas, but I suggest keeping the rear seat. I also have a kid on the way, due in april. How cool is it to have a highly focused carrera with back seats that can do more than 90% of cars on the road?
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:56 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Oh god, what a bunch of nonsense. Do you ever read what you type before you hit Submit Reply?
I know you get a kick out of me. I shoot from the hip. That isn't a problem though. The perfect 911 is a 991 chassis with a 3.8 that revs to at least 8400 rpm. No RWS and a mechanical lsd and a six speed. I know it doesn't exist but it shouldn't be so hard to build. Aftermarket is scared but a 6 speed gts with gears would be a hoot. I just didn't have the patients to participate. It was enough to for me to beat a GTR under my watch. The rest is under your watch.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:36 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by titleistaddict87 View Post
Now this is an interesting idea. Who will do this? Guards Transmission? Sharkwerks?
Contact Sharkwerks and ask what they did to their GT4 (if you haven't seen in, check YouTube for Smoking Tire / Matt Farrah's review on it. They swapped a LWFW and also had gears 2-4 shortened. Believe that they said Guard did it. They said it was about $10k and that a final drive wasn't available. Could be just on the Cayman.

Since the GT4 uses the 3.8 from the CS, you might be good, but of course the transmission is different so who knows.
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:03 AM
  #56  
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In for the mods and OP's journey should he accept the challenge.
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:45 AM
  #57  
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I thought ceramic brakes doesn't work that well unless on track, so there are detune kit for ppl that track less.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:04 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
IMO, modding older Porsches can make lots of sense; big mods to nearly-current-gen cars is a romantic pasttime best entered into with eyes wide open -- which it sounds like our friend Titleistadict is doing. Hey, if it keeps him off the golf course it can't be a bad idea.

Let's not forget the gentleman who built a complete GT3 exterior onto his GTS last year, for what must have been an extraordinary cost; he loved the GT3 aero-look, but wanted a backseat and a manual, iirc, maybe AWD. Anyway, he fitted all the GT3 panels and wings, rerouted the exhaust, and it was a very big job. If he were to sell that car now it would probably bring a couple grand more than a regular GTS, maybe 5k to just the right buyer. But it's what he wanted, so good for him.
Thats right , i'm the gentleman and i'm go far beyond converting the exterior, the mods to save weight ( akrapovic gt3 exhaust , lithium battery) are in balance to the power gain mods ( cobb pro tune , pdk remapping , bmc air filter and race headers) my goal was to built a street cup 911 ( no interest in race tracks and high reviing engines) and it turn out very well. we compared stock 991 Gt3 to my Gts and gts is faster and push more ( torque) from 0-4000k rpm. from 4000k and beyound no chance gt3 is moving away but again i dont need that. i look for mid range gains to make Gts more alive.

And yes for the right petrolhead i would sell the car and start a new project ( 991.2 turbo to gt3 rs exterior conversion) ... unfortunately i'm in europe. Name:  photo621.jpg
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:11 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Johnny5Alive View Post
It's been quite a while since I've posted, but your thread has my interest.

How do you like the DSC Sport V2 controller?

The Cobb Tune has been very interesting to me but I worry about warranty issues. I know many mods can void warranty, but tunes are particularly worrying to me. Does it take into account other mods? What happens if you run too lean? Speaking of which...

IPD Plenum: I don't have the power kit, and so I've thought seriously about this one. Why did you remove it from your list? I thought replacing a plastic piece with an aluminum piece would be beneficial, even if gains are modest. I bet it's a satisfying mod, but I wonder about this plus cobb and running lean. I wonder if cobb adjusts the A/F ratio for mods like this.

Something on my list, that I didn't see on yours is a 3rd radiator. I suggest it. I've had a few high performance cars, and even on the street added cooling capabilities is welcomed.

I really like your ideas, but I suggest keeping the rear seat. I also have a kid on the way, due in april. How cool is it to have a highly focused carrera with back seats that can do more than 90% of cars on the road?
DSC V2 is AWESOME. Transforms the ride and the car completely. Before I thought the SPASM was too rough in the wrong places and just seemed to upset the car when going over expansion joints on the freeway and uneven roads. With DSC, the ride has smoothed out significantly. Everything reacts better to sudden changes, and there is a lot less squat and dive under hard acceleration and braking. I'm very pleased with the mod and highly recommend it. Larry Cable was even nice enough to send me his custom maps which I would highly recommend over the standard.

Re: Cobb, I would only do this if I decided to do more power mods than the exhaust. IMO if you do plenum, headers, and exhaust, you will benefit greatly with a custom tune through Fabspeed or anyone else to prevent running lean like you say.

3rd radiator is a cheap and easy mod and I was thinking about this, especially w the power mods above. If I just keep it to the exhaust, may skip, but definitely like the look of the grille up front vs. the solid plastic piece.

Contrats on the kid! Will definitely keep the back seat for when she comes but may try taking out in the meantime to see the effect. Takes about 15 mins to insert/remove.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Contact Sharkwerks and ask what they did to their GT4 (if you haven't seen in, check YouTube for Smoking Tire / Matt Farrah's review on it. They swapped a LWFW and also had gears 2-4 shortened. Believe that they said Guard did it. They said it was about $10k and that a final drive wasn't available. Could be just on the Cayman.

Since the GT4 uses the 3.8 from the CS, you might be good, but of course the transmission is different so who knows.
I will contact Sharkwerks and Guards both. Seems like a not crazy idea to dramatically change the way the car revs and feels.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:04 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by titleistaddict87 View Post
DSC V2 is AWESOME. Transforms the ride and the car completely. Before I thought the SPASM was too rough in the wrong places and just seemed to upset the car when going over expansion joints on the freeway and uneven roads. With DSC, the ride has smoothed out significantly. Everything reacts better to sudden changes, and there is a lot less squat and dive under hard acceleration and braking. I'm very pleased with the mod and highly recommend it. Larry Cable was even nice enough to send me his custom maps which I would highly recommend over the standard.

Re: Cobb, I would only do this if I decided to do more power mods than the exhaust. IMO if you do plenum, headers, and exhaust, you will benefit greatly with a custom tune through Fabspeed or anyone else to prevent running lean like you say.

3rd radiator is a cheap and easy mod and I was thinking about this, especially w the power mods above. If I just keep it to the exhaust, may skip, but definitely like the look of the grille up front vs. the solid plastic piece.

Contrats on the kid! Will definitely keep the back seat for when she comes but may try taking out in the meantime to see the effect. Takes about 15 mins to insert/remove.



I will contact Sharkwerks and Guards both. Seems like a not crazy idea to dramatically change the way the car revs and feels.
Been following this thread with great interest, I love all the ideas and how interactive you're being with the build! If I might weigh in on the performance upgrades, if there was one thing I wouldn't skip out on it's the headers. They are the biggest restriction point on the car, and we have seen solid 20whp/wtq improvements on the S models with our Sport Headers. X51 cars have seen 30whp/wtq. Headers and a Protune will make you very happy and they are going to be the best bang for the buck power upgrades on the car, cherry on top being much improved throttle response and some more sound

Glad to hear you are enjoying the DSC module, we are a distributor of them and every one of my clients running it are beyond thrilled. It is quite the underrated mod!
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