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I think the issue of HFS 991.2's are 2 fold: decreased sales and overall happiness of the 991.2. Despite all the hate by 991.1 drivers, the 991.2 vehicles are fantastic cars!
I could have bought this vehicle for 118k at the local dealer before they wholesaled it to Greensboro. Posted it not knowing any better on the 991.1 thread and was beat up by those guys. Was a nice car and was owned by an 80 year old man who drove it just a few miles. Had the same gas in the tank as when it was bought when he traded back for a Macan or Cayenne. I should have bought it as it was an exceptional deal at $118k.
That does not exactly look like "30% depreciation just driving it off the lot".
There's retail prices and there's the trade-in value. If Flickroll's dealer was selling it for 19% off - which is definitely low - you can bet that the trade-in value was 25% off or more.
Also, look at the warranty start date. 13 months ago. If it was sold just now (and it has been sold, Greensboro doesn't have it), that presumably meant it was sitting on the lot for a long time. Maybe because no one was interested in paying a premium for the cosmetic stuff locally? Or maybe no local market for a manual, heretical as that might seem.
There's retail prices and there's the trade-in value. If Flickroll's dealer was selling it for 19% off - which is definitely low - you can bet that the trade-in value was 25% off or more.
Also, look at the warranty start date. 13 months ago. If it was sold just now (and it has been sold, Greensboro doesn't have it), that presumably meant it was sitting on the lot for a long time. Maybe because no one was interested in paying a premium for the cosmetic stuff locally? Or maybe no local market for a manual, heretical as that might seem.
I counted 2 "ifs", 2 "maybes" and a "presumably" there.
There's retail prices and there's the trade-in value. If Flickroll's dealer was selling it for 19% off - which is definitely low - you can bet that the trade-in value was 25% off or more.
Also, look at the warranty start date. 13 months ago. If it was sold just now (and it has been sold, Greensboro doesn't have it), that presumably meant it was sitting on the lot for a long time. Maybe because no one was interested in paying a premium for the cosmetic stuff locally? Or maybe no local market for a manual, heretical as that might seem.
I know this car well and the history of it. My local dealer (in Virginia) orders at least 50% of their cars with MT. There are a couple on the lot right now, a base and an S. The red car was ordered with MT but not specifically for anyone, was received new a little over a year ago, and once received in inventory was sold to the 80 year old man within a week. Apparently the wrong car for him as he never drove it. I do not know what they gave him for trade but you can bet he lost his a**. In this case the SA wanted to keep it to resell, but higher up folks in the organization decided to wholesale it almost immediately. I happened to stop by right before it went out the door and talked about it with them and almost struck a deal. What held me back is 4-5 months earlier (9/16) I had bougt a new 2015 C2S Cab with PDK from them that HAD been on the lot for 16 months and was about to be wholesaled. I got a great deal on it (140k MSRP with clear bra already installed and unpunched warranty for 110k) so the timing for the red one just was not right for me. The Greensboro dealer picked it up at wholesale and CPO’d it and they sold it relatively quickly. Looking back I wish I had done it. Not the discount some claim on this thread, but not bad either for a near new car. Now I am working with the dealer again, 6 months after the time I had an opportunity to buy the red one. However this time I’m getting a C2S coupe in the red I want - Carmine (I have never owned a coupe and do want one) with MT. They will order it for me and have offered a fair trade and a generous discount. Right now they are trying to find an early October build for a different dealer to trade one of their existing cars for, with at least a one week window before lock.
I counted 2 "ifs", 2 "maybes" and a "presumably" there.
Do you have a point? Because near as I can tell, you don't.
First, what I was saying: it's hard to say exactly what the immediate depreciation is without some hard numbers on trade in values. Which we don't have. We have the asking prices at dealerships, but that's not the same as the trade in value.
Second, I was pointing out that it sounded like this particular car was not just "driven off the lot," so it's actually not an argument for mile 1 depreciation. In effect, I was saying "this car depreciating by 30% doesn't mean the rest depreciate that much when you buy them." Because I don't actually have a dog in the fight about whether the 30% figure is true or false, I'm fine with pointing out the case against "30% off immediately" if the facts support that.
From what Flickroll said, it was depreciation on being driven off the lot after all. Sold in the first week, returned almost immediately, and offered at a large discount. But it's also an atypical case because, from what he says, the dealership decided to wholesale it immediately, and of course they'll entertain a customer offer that's better than wholesale. They weren't offering it to the general public at that price, that was a price on a car that was just about to go to another dealer at a lower price.
Finally, the rhetoric: counting "if's, maybes and presumablies" and expecting that to demonstrate anything is poor reasoning. "If" doesn't always mean uncertainty, that's not the only meaning of the word. The first one, for example, is a logical construction: if <precondition given as a fact by flickroll> then <obvious conclusion>. You can only treat that as an uncertainty if you're asserting that flickroll was lying about the $118k offering.
The "maybes" had zero to do with depreciation. They were speculation as to why a particular car didn't sell. That sort of thing is cannot be certain unless you interview every person who considered buying it.
Turns out it was irrelevant, because the car did not, in fact, sit unsold at the original dealership.
You can only treat that as an uncertainty if you're asserting that flickroll was lying about the $118k offering.
I can assure you I am not lying about the deal I was working. First, that is not who I am, never have been, never will be. Second, why would I want to do that anyway? I will say I am a high volume customer at this dealer, they sell VW, Audi, Porsche. Look at my signature. All of the cars except the white 911 came from them, and the black one is about to be traded there on another deal. Not to mention I have bought 2 VW’s there for my children. The dealership treats me right, although I am sure anyone who happened into the door would have received a similar deal on the red 911.
I can assure you I am not lying about the deal I was working.
I didn't mean to seriously imply that you were. I was pointing out that "if" doesn't mean what he thought he meant, that he'd have to be asserting something unreasonable and insulting if he wanted to connect "if" and uncertainty.
07-25-2017, 10:32 PM
