There! You just said it yourself. The whole point of turbocharging is allow for better efficiency during normal street driving, but if you insist on beating the crap out of gas pedal on +400hp car on public streets, there is no huge benefits to be gained aside from the extra mid range power, which itself is good enough of a reason for Porsche to go forward with the technology for a street orientated Carrera given the current market.

But again, I would highly recommend you taking that style of aggressive driving to a track, instead of risking every one around you on a public road. Aggressive drivers like you is the reason why the general public has a bad perception of owners of high end sports cars like us. And if you can afford a +$100k Porsche, I am sure you can afford the entry fees for those events as well, unless you just simply lack the courage and skills to take the car through its proper pace at its proper environment.

And honestly, unless you are terrible driver with absolutely no ability to carry momentum of the car through the corners during your spirited drive, your mpg should still be pretty decent. And if you just love to smash the pedal at every stop light, perhaps you should just grow up a little as well for the sake of others around you.

Anyway, I hope this is my last post on this ridiculous thread.

And yes, strumbring and I are paid by Porsche to market the new models on this forum.... You guys.... Jesus christ...

 

Can we hold you to your word on this? How many times have you said this and still keep at it?

 

"How-european-fuel-economy-testing-will-kill-the-naturally-aspirated-engine"

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...irated-engine/


"So, lots of governments tax cars by the amount of CO2 emitted from their tailpipe, and are fining automakers for exceeding the limits for average CO2 emissions. Which all sounds very nice and dandy, until you see one glorious, gaping hole in the whole scheme."

 

lol. amazing how important it is to be "right", right? the ego is an amazing thing, and root of all evil. insatiable and uncontrollable for so many men.

 

And all this is before the car has hit our shores!! What will happen when it actually gets here? Who will say they were right or wrong? My guess no one will admit anything and we will be flooded with same level of anxiety until the car is on the market for 3 years.

I'm out. I'll wait. Carry on.

 

I think an intelligent reader can figure out who is the "evil" here.

Btw, "evil prevails when the good do nothing". Every heard of that before? All I am trying to do is to bring factual information here to educate this community while the two here are misleading those who are not familiar with the technology with bad science and faulty logic.

But again, now I start to see the point that some people you just can't and don't want to be enlightened. So I guess my effort is futile here.

 

Wait for the actual car to arrive. Sometimes enlightenment comes through experience. With real life experience we may all find some of the questions and concerns are put to rest or not. At this point continued argument is non productive. I can appreciate what both sides are concerned with but it has gotten lost in the need to be right.

 

for christs sake, is the argument really that government regulations caused the shift to turbos? I would hope not, because that is pretty clear.

Does that mean that the turbo motor in the 991.2 won't be good? Nope. One article that provides a dubious description of the driving experience is hardly gospel.

As for the soul argument (which is asinine to begin with), my 993TT has more soul than a 991.1 N/A could ever hope to achieve. Now what? Firstly, an engine is a mechanical object. It has no soul or feelings. It merely has a power delivery profile.

If you prefer to rev the nuts off the car and drive around at 4k+rpm all the time, perhaps the 991.2 isn't for you. If you prefer your torque lower in the rev range and accept a slightly less linear power delivery, then turbos are nothing to worry about.

Why all the consternation, I'm really not sure. If you like N/A cars, keep your bloody 991.1. done

 

Looks like they hired the head designer
for the Honda Accord...

 

Don't understand why we can't have a normal back and forth exchange of ideas and acceptance of views like the manual versus PDK threads.

 

Have you read those posts??

 

My last Turbo was a 996TT X50 (450hp/467tq), with headers and exhaust. A wicked, powerful beast that was a blast to drive. Immediately before buying it I had a beautiful Boxster S for a few years.

One day my wife said to me, "You know, I don't see you going out to drive just for fun with the Turbo like you did with previous 911s or your Boxster. Have you just not bonded with it?"

I thought about it and she was right. The power was addictive and amazing, and when I did go to the mountains and flog it it was a remarkably good sportscar on our amazing southeastern mountain roads. But in the end, I didn't enjoy driving it as much around town as I had previous NA Porsches. Every day I walk to the garage and choose a set of keys for what I want to drive that day. It includes a built Wrangler that's a lot of fun, and a 68 Cadillac convertible. I had gotten to where I was driving the Porsche about once a week, and rarely taking it to the mountains.

So I went into the dealer to buy a new 991TT, figuring the advances in the chassis and power delivery were the answer. In the process, I wound up testing a full-boat 991S with all the boxes checked including PDCC (no powerkit or Ceramics). That's when I realized, "Duh! It's the turbo-vs-NA thingy that's got you going ho-hum. Why not order a GTS, keep the Turbo a little just to make sure, and then sell Turbo if your instincts were right."

So I did. I never drove the Turbo again after getting the GTS. Sure, I miss the 150 ft-lb delta in torque occasionally. But honestly, I'm just enjoying working the 'box and the throttle so much more, and hearing those glorious sounds on acceleration or the burble/cough/sputter/blat on overrun after a downshift. Sold the Turbo last month and haven't looked back.

Yeah, 991TTs are different beasts than 996TTs, but it wasn't lack of power or even lag that spurred my decision, and the 991TT didn't solve the other problems.

Of course, YMMV and all that.

Cheers

 

Once again, you ignore responding to the point I'm trying to make and go to the extreme with nonsense to try to support your argument. Listen carefully and maybe we can have a civil debate on the key issues. I've made two points, both of which are easily supportable with data.

1. The move to turbo and other FI options in the sports car segment is entirely due to government regulation and has nothing to do with market demand or manufacturer belief that it's a better platform. If you disagree with that, you're simply delusional. There has more than enough written on this by people much smarter about it than either you or I, and the manufacturers have publicly said as much as well.

2. Unless you drive very conservatively, the improvement in mileage you will experience in the real world is marginal at best. And when I said spiritedly, I didn't mean using the road like a racetrack, launching from every light, hitting triple digit speeds, etc. I'm talking about simply holding each gear longer in a spirited manner. Forget the upper rpm range, even using the mid range on a high HP sports car consistently will lower your mileage significantly on any of the cars, NA or FI. I've owned two late model FI cars (A6 and Q7) and, in the real world they get little to no better mileage than the NA cars they replace. I got 16mph mixed in my A6 3.0T with FI, 1mpg better than my 4.2 A6 got with a NA V8, and 1 mpg worse than I get in mixed driving in my RS5. And our Q7 3.0T with 333HP gets exactly 1mpg better than my 2007 Chevy Avalanche with an NA V8 and the exact same mileage our 04 Touareg V8 got. I haven't seen much of any benefit from either of those FI cars.

Again, if you don't believe me, go over to the F80 forum and read the gas mileage thread. The spread of mpg results are broad and directly related to how the poster is driving the car. You can definitely get better mileage out of a turbo in low key commute type driving.

I'm happy to wager that, in the real world, the new Porsche motor in the C2S will be rated 2-3 mpg better in the city and 3-5 in highway driving, and the real world mileage improvements will be at the low end of those ranges. Even if they were, it's certainly not inconsequential, particularly relative to the regulatory targets, hence why they're making the move.

 

Unfortunately this is exactly like that topic. Same drama and anxiety level.

 

Thanks for a real world experienced based response NoGaBiker. I too had 3 996 TT's and a 997 TT. I did not have any bonding issues as I loved the power and AWD handling. 3 of those had Europipe exhausts that had amazing sound. So I am interested in how the new car handles and performs as a turbo based car was not an issue for me. I am happy to have owned several of the P car variants.

I'll wait it out as I have a great car now. I moved to a 9914S after a Panny 4S I owned when I moved out of the NY area. So I also love an NA car too. Either way for me it's ok as the car I have now makes me smile every time I drive it.